Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
so the universe was not caused?
er, not really. Everything has a cause, accept agents.
law of cause and effect
humans are agents over certain actions yes. Not agents universally, because they have a cause (their parents).
But we don't know of agents that are not personal
I don't know of any
what you mean?
look up cause and effect will ya, save some time.
Everything we have observed has a cause. That does not mean that everything requires a cause.
However, every agent we have ever observed also has a cause. So asserting God has no cause is to make an unjustified claim.
The reality is we don't know what caused the universe. That's the only honest position you can take. To assert anything else is to be intellectually dishonest.
We require more information and more research, and then one day hopefully we will figure out how everything came to be.
humans are agents over certain actions yes. Not agents universally, because they have a cause (their parents).
But we don't know of agents that are not personal
Everything is a source of causes, even if it is not an agent. An electron acts as an electron because it is an electron, not because it was caused to act like an electron by any other cause. Even if the electron was created in some prior event, now that it is an electron it behaves as an electron.
So, the universe could cause its own expansion without any sort of free willing Prime Mover. It expanded because it was in its nature to expand. There is no reason, in principle, why entities (including unintelligent ones) can't be sources of causes, and therefore possible uncaused causes.
eudaimonia,
Mark
[nit pick] This is not true. We have observed several phenomena at the sub atomic and quantum levels that as far as we are able to determine have no cause. See radioactive decay and quantum foam/virtual particles [/nit pick]
He means we are not aware of what caused the big bang.
There's a number of ideas, both scientific or theological in nature... however none of them we can prove are correct.
So, the honest position to take is we don't know what caused it. To assert anything as truth is to be dishonest.
The best thing to do is research further, in hopes we can one day answer the question.
Gravity and Erosion are agents that cause landslides.
You don't need intelligent sources to have causality. To assert the creation of the universe required intelligence is a faulty argument.
You must demonstrate why it required intelligence, and then demonstrate that it did require intelligence.
To assert that it did, without showing how or why you know that is not making a valid argument.
Everything we have observed has a cause. That does not mean that everything requires a cause.
However, every agent we have ever observed also has a cause. So asserting God has no cause is to make an unjustified claim.
The reality is we don't know what caused the universe. That's the only honest position you can take. To assert anything else is to be intellectually dishonest.
We require more information and more research, and then one day hopefully we will figure out how everything came to be.
Agent causation does not equal intelligent design at all.
As for the seismograph, It's far more likely to be a wacky earthquake, or a prank from someone else in the lab than an invisible magic man in the sky
There would be no reason to attribute that to a god at all.
So, how do we know this explosion, the Big Bang, was caused?
Sorry about the sarcasm, but sometimes the best way to deal with a ridiculous argument, is to ridicule it.
The flaw in your argument is that you don't know the universe was caused by something that didn't have a cause.
However, regardless it's reasonable to assume for the sake of argument that some form of agent caused the universe to come into existence.... However, there is no evidence at all for that agent to be intelligent, conscious or a God of any type. It could simply be a cause of nature.
most likely something down the line, had to start it all. This would be an agent. unless you think an infinity of causes started it all. Which is unlikely.
sure, but IF a signature showed up on it. Something was miraculous yes?
No, profoundly ordinary. Some passing human wrote their signature on it. This is hardly an unscientific observation. We know humans exist. We cannot say the same for universal agents.
I do hope we can avoid arguments from design or any notion of a criterion of design as they're rather rubbish.
an electron acts as such because of it's charge.
Whatever charged it would be the cause.
I think you could tell if the pens of the seismograph were the same pen as the signature.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?