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As Christians, we must recognize our own bias in this debate

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Vance

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OK, this may fall under the “Well, duh” category, but it needs to be said *by* a Christian, and a Creationist:

My point, right up on top: I think the root of the controversy between creation and evolution is the interpretation of Scripture which insists on a young Earth, and *not* all the asserted scientific “issues”. It is the “young Earth” belief which *informs* the scientific arguments made by Creationists. It is *they* who are starting from a hugely biased position, making all scientific conclusions suspect.

I believe that the concept of a young Earth is based on a faulty reading of Scripture, but those who *do* believe in a young Earth do so whole-heartedly and approach EVERY issue relating to evolution with the absolute refusal to believe in any theory which would require an Earth older than 6,000 to 10,000 years. They develop their scientific approaches around this presumption, searching for any and every argument which seems to “fit” this need, disregarding all others. That is not a method of arriving at the Truth, it is simply seeking out supportive evidence for a preconceived concept. To my mind, the extremes to which this approach inevitably leads causes more harm to the cause of Christianity than anything the opponents of the Church can manage.

Young-Earth Creationists should at least acknowledge that their scientific conclusions derive *from* their Young-Earth belief. They should say, where appropriate, “yes, absent a belief in a young Earth, that would be a logical position, but because I believe in an Earth only 6,000 years old, I can not accept that. Instead, I think it must be X because that fits within my 6,000 year time restriction.” The fact that they *don’t* do this when appropriate simply weakens their arguments which are *not* dependent upon their religious restrictions.

In any case, I find it very dangerous to develop an intensive body of “scientific theory” around a particular interpretation of Scripture. Humans are fallible and their interpretations of Scripture can be (and have been) very wrong. You may be spending a life’s work developing theories to “fit” an particular interpretation of Scripture which ends up being false, causing more damage to the Church than you could imagine. Satan has many subtle tools to destroy Faith. It would be just like him.

Additional thoughts:

BTW, I am a Creationist, of the “Old-Earth” variety, who believes that evolution possibly played a significant part of God’s creative process (but I personally believe that Man was a special creation at some point). I acknowledge right up front that, because I sincerely believe in God and in the Scriptures, I will approach these subjects with these beliefs in hand (and heart). For me, this means that, while God created the universe, with its laws and predictable nature, He can, has, and will intervene in contravention of these very laws when it fits His plan. But this is “super”-natural, outside of any ability to observe and analyze. It does not in any way negate the work of science, nor is it in conflict with the naturalistic approach to scientific research.

To me science is the study of the natural universe God created, but without reference to His supernatural involvement. Christianity need not accept all conclusions reached by scientific study (scientists are as fallible as those interpreting Scripture), but it also need not conclude that every theory developed by secular scientists are false by definition simply because it “does not take God into account”.

It frustrates me to no end to hear Creationists insist that the scientists who support evolution are doing so based on an improper bias against Christian thought, almost rising to the level of Kennedy-assassination-esque conspiracy theories. I don’t see it. Yes, many evolutionists are not just a-religious, they are anti-religious. But not the majority, by a long shot. Very few actually seem intent upon damaging Christianity. It is not on some agenda somewhere. So, to say that the theory of evolution is somehow a product of anti-Christian activity is irresponsible at best.
 
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Serapha

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Well, heres a "study of the natural universe God created" tidbit of information for you...


The Euphrates River carries silk and sediment in its body of water and deposits it at the coast, adding 70 to 90 feed per year to the land mass. At that rate, how old is the Euphrates River? Because there will be a point when there is no sedimentation from the deposits of the river flow.

Now, we know that the Garden of Eden was identified with the Euphrates River... so when was the Euphrates created? When we know with some "scientific certainty" when the Euphrates was created, we may know learn when "Eden" existed, and have a chronological mark of when mankind was created.

I don't think that the sedimentation rate of the Euphrates coincides with your "old-Earth" theologies...

Oh yeah, a scripture....

Genesis 2:8-15
8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.


~malaka~
 
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J

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remmber that the worldwide flood that created mountains, destroyed civilisations, deposited hundreds of feet of sand, boiled to produce hundreds of feet of salt, while simultaneously carefully sorting all the animals into nice neat places without a single tooth out of place and preserved raindrops and insect footprints..... might have corrupted the evidence. so I don't think you can use the euphrates to date anything. to be honest, I am suprised the euphrates even exists considering the sheer destructive power of the flood.
 
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Serapha

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Two questions:

1) I was having a discussion with a member who referred me to a site that supported a regional flood and not a world-wide flood. Was the Euphrates covered in the regional flood?


2) Are you posting on the right forum?


~malaka~
 
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lucaspa

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Malaka, have you ever heard of subduction? That's where the land actually sinks. Have you checked to see if the Persian Gulf is a subduction zone?
 
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