Dave Ellis
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Let me try that!
1, If the bible is true then it can explain every moral issue, right, and wrong. If it fails to do so then the bible is false
2, The bible does not explain why slavery or many ofthe worst objective wrongs ever is wrong and actually would justify it
3, therefore, the bible is false along with god the father,, the son and the Holy spirit
Ken
This line is a clear indication that you actually do not understand the subject matter.
Strawmanish there,
1, Gravity exists under the "naturalist" and the Theistic Worldview.
2, Gravity is a material property, Morals are immaterial therefore correct cannot explain morals.
3, "naturalism" is stictly material like gravity, however is used as an explanation of all life. gravity on the other hand exists on any worldview. Morals, an Immaterial property are the main property to life, therefore explanation for morals are required for any worldview which has to do with the origins of life.
4, Gravity exists under any worldview therefore no explanation needed for morals and gravity obviously exists. "naturalism" is about the origins of life therefore explanation for The Immaterial Property of Morals, specifically why rape is objectively wrong is need.
5, rape is Objectively Wrong
6, under "naturalism" rape can be justified and has no reason for being wrong and Immaterial properties don't exist under "naturalism"
7, Since rape is wrong and Immaterial properties do exist. "naturalism" is therefore Factually false.
"atheism"/"naturalism" fails again. nice try, but never ever try to deceive anyone again.
Agreed. also I might add pointing out inconveniences does not make you smart, cool or win an argument.
Easy, by using the question, can rape ever be right? hopefully you are sane and answer no.
Exactly, that's why "naturalism" is false.
Yes it does, rape is an Objective Moral Wrong, Morals are Priority in Life and were created with life/humanity. therefore "naturalism" in order to be a valid worldview/explanation needs to easily explanation why rape is Objectively Wrong.
Not only does "naturalism" fail to do that but "naturalism" actually justifies it. "naturalism" therefore goes in the trash.
The rules of chess has nothing to do with the origins of life.
When someone fails in an argument they usually tell the other, "you don't understand..." etc etc.
"naturalism" is dead, bringing it up again would be a deception as anything that isn't True is a deception.
Nature does not and can not lie. As such, Nature is the most honest, moral statement there is.Exactly, that's why "naturalism" is false.
I have to disagree. To those who have ears that hear...Nature speaks volumes about morality. That's why naturalist like Luther Burbank, Masonobu Fukuoka, Goethe, Henry David Thoreau, Ralph Waldo Emerson and many others wrote about morality. To capture the words of Nature, a person HAS to be moral. Nature will not speak to those who do not come with a pure heart.Naturalism is the idea that everything that happens in existence is through nature. It doesn't talk about morality, but that doesn't mean it is wrong.
I have to disagree. To those who have ears that hear...Nature speaks volumes about morality. That's why naturalist like Luther Burbank, Masonobu Fukuoka, Goethe, Henry David Thoreau, Ralph Waldo Emerson and many others wrote about morality. To capture the words of Nature, a person HAS to be moral. Nature will not speak to those who do not come with a pure heart.
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Figuring out how something works it mental brain stuff. The suggestion is to go deeper than that. To attune to nature, on the other hand is heart awareness stuff. It's through Heart that nature speaks to a person, not their brain. But it's harder for a human being to open their heart in Love to Nature if they are busy trying to figure things out with their brain. To get to your question about morals, the more moral a person is, the more they will be able to open their heart to Nature.How does being moral make you better at figuring out how nature works?
It has to do with the way a person goes about listening. There is a direct relationship to being moral and being able to listen to Nature. Learning to listen to Nature has a way of making a person more moral. The baggage that a person carries from their immoral acts or even bad thoughts raise up and get into the way of listening to Nature.Why do you think nature will not speak to those who do not come with a pure heart?
A person needs to go about life with a clean and open heart.What does nature have to say about morality?
Figuring out how something works it mental brain stuff. The suggestion is to go deeper than that. To attune to nature, on the other hand is heart awareness stuff. It's through Heart that nature speaks to a person, not their brain. But it's harder for a human being to open their heart in Love to Nature if they are busy trying to figure things out with their brain. To get to your question about morals, the more moral a person is, the more they will be able to open their heart to Nature.
It has to do with the way a person goes about listening. There is a direct relationship to being moral and being able to listen to Nature. Learning to listen to Nature has a way of making a person more moral. The baggage that a person carries from their immoral acts or even bad thoughts raise up and get into the way of listening to Nature.
A person needs to go about life with a clean and open heart.
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The indigenous people the world over as well as the mystics of the various religions of the world would say, yes, that’s true.So you think that nature is sentient and literally talks to people?
The indigenous people the world over as well as the mystics of the various religions of the world would say, yes, thats true.
The language spoken is the language of the heart though, not the brain. That's the part that tangles us up here in the West.
Maybe...but I don't think so. It's not emotions that they are responding to. It's something else...something much deeper and much more personal and heart opened to Nature than are emotions.Well, that is their opinion. Do they have any reasoning to back up their claims? Maybe they just mis-interpreted our emotional reaction to the beauty of nature, and thought that nature talks to people emotionally.
Maybe...but I don't think so. It's not emotions that they are responding to. It's something else...something much deeper and much more personal and heart opened to Nature than are emotions.
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Some religious people do that..that's true. But I'm not pointing towards religious people. I'm pointing towards Life itself, and the deep inner experience of it.Some religious people often do this. They will claimed that heightened and new emotional experiences cannot be emotions because they are so different and so must by secret communications.
How about putting on the skin of Jesus Christ
That metaphor is even worse than the "bride" metaphor! I'm thinking Silence of the Lambs here.
eudaimonia,
Mark
That did come out looking kind of bad.That metaphor is even worse than the "bride" metaphor! I'm thinking Silence of the Lambs here.
eudaimonia,
Mark
I'm Todd, and I approve this message.
SavedByChrist94, I have a question. An actual, serious question.
What high school did you go to. I have a letter to write...
Seriously...
If gravity is true why help the poor?
Seriously though, trolling is only fun when 1 side is serious.
If I had to judge the characters of 2 people. One who thinks rape is wrong because ultramegasuperman said it.
And one who thinks rape is wrong because he's considered the consequences of his actions and realizes the physical and psychological traumas it inflicts on the victim and feels empathy.
Naturalism is the idea that everything that happens in existence is through nature. It doesn't talk about morality, but that doesn't mean it is wrong.
Let me try that!
1, If the bible is true then it can explain every moral issue, right, and wrong. If it fails to do so then the bible is false
2, The bible does not explain why slavery or many ofthe worst objective wrongs ever is wrong and actually would justify it
Ken
That's a non-sequitur.
It's a quite common error as well among theists... Just because I can't think of a situation where rape would be acceptable, doesn't say at all whether it's objective or subjective. It literally has no bearing on it.
Here's why:
Subjective morality is morality based on reason, personal experience, empathy and common sense. Using those factors, there is no example any mentally healthy person could point to, that would make rape a good thing under any circumstance.
Objective morality is the belief morality is inherent or dictated to us in some cosmic set of rules. There is no rhyme nor reason to why the rules are they way they are. If in your set of rules, rape is wrong, then it's wrong. The reasoning is irrelevant.
There is no explanation why rape is wrong from an objective standpoint (apart from the fact that's the way your rules were written).
There is an explanation why rape is wrong from a subjective standpoint though. In fact, there's all kinds of reasons we can point to why rape is wrong.
Really... Well then, please demonstrate using naturalism why rape is ok.
No... when someone doesn't understand the argument a person is making, they tend to point out they don't understand.
When someone fails in an argument, they do one of two things:
1) Continue making an argument even though they lack evidence for their claims.
2) Concede the argument.
This line is a clear indication that you actually do not understand the subject matter.
Therefore rape is Objectively wrong.
So according to you it can be justified? rape can never be justified, therefore reasoning is relevant as the reasoning prevents it from ever being right and being Objectively wrong, and that reason is The Trinity of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.
Yes there is, it's perverse, abusive, shameful, etc, all of which are Objective in Reality and Under God(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit), and not even subjective under "atheism".
Of course rape is wrong, however only under Reality/Christian Mono-Theism.
under "naturalism"/"macro-evolution"/"natural selection" it would be advantagous to a species.
Hmm that's exactly what your always doing.
How? because you fail to answer a simple question, either because you do not understand the subject at matter or because you know well and good the answer but know it'll disprove your "naturalism"/"atheism".
so I ask again, don't make any excuses, under "naturalism"/"atheism" what reason is there for rape to be wrong?
Deep down you know there's not one reason and that "naturalism" actually justifies that sick perverted action.
How is it trolling? I take what you just said as a lie, which is a form of trolling.
only reason you would call me that is because the question is threatening to your "atheism"/"naturalism" as you know very well under "atheism" there is no explanation to why rape is wrong and "atheism"/"naturalism" actually justifies it. this question is a very valid question which destroys "atheism"/"naturalism" quick.
In the real world rape is Objectively Wrong.
under "naturalism"/"macro-evolution"/"natural selection" it would be advantagous to a species.
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