Are You Saved: A Lesson on Sin (Christians: please read!)

Mounts · Sep 19, 2003

Dear Christians and all who profess to be Christian: Listen to what happened to me today, I have an important message to tell to all:

I was sitting in the classroom when two of my professing Christian classmates, who claim they love God, were openly talking about their fornications and how much they liked this adulterous sex. I wasnt trying to ease drop on their conversation, but they were talking loud enough for me to hear clearly since I had just originally talked to one of the classmates right in front of me. However, they have no shame in their talk of their sin because no one shames them or rebukes them for such things. I wanted strongly to correct the folly that they were revealing right in front of my face but, because of the weakness of my flesh and to my shame, I was not strong enough to open my mouth for the sake of Christ. My heart was angered and sorrowed so I simply moved away from them so I couldnt hear the conversationand my spirit was shamed because I did not open my mouth for I could not think of the words to say.

Later this day, on my way home from school, God had revealed to me the message I should have taught them and gave me the words to say in my heart on my drive home; and the message is this scriptural truth that Jesus taught that I wish to share with everyone who professes to be a Christian. First off, simply because you say you are a Christian, does not mean you are a Christian by any means in Gods eyes. Listen: a Christian is a follower and believer of Christ, who loves God and loves one another as he loves himself. Simply because you say words like, I accept Christ into my heart, or, I make Christ my Savior, does not justify your sins, for salvation cannot be earned by works. I have had Christians reply that such a thing is not a work, but that is plain ignorance because yes, it is something you are doing to earn salvation; therefore being, a work. And such a thought is unbiblical. I will not get into the sovereignty of God/free will debate, but I wish to preach of this biblical truth: If you love Jesus, you will obey Him.

A Christian is one who takes up his cross and follows Jesus; not one who simply claims Christ is Savior and then stops and turns back to his sinful home. So listen to the words of Jesus:

No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. Matthew 6:24

Mammon is wealth or earthly things. But take the message that Jesus talks about and you can apply the same principles to Christ and sin. So if you will, let me use Jesus words to portray an important message:

No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one or love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve Christ and sin.

Either you hate sin and love Christ, or you love sin and hate Christ. Either you are loyal to Christ and despise sin, or you are loyal to sin and despise Christ.

Jesus also had this to say:

If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15

If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep my words. John 14:23,24

If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Fathers commandments and abide in His love. John 15:10

You do not love Jesus by what you say, you love Him by what you do. So I beg every professing Christian to self-examine their heart and see if they really do love God and His Son, or do you despise His holy, pure, sinless nature? Do you not seek God? Do you not wish to become perfect as He is perfect? I could say so much more than this but Ill leave you with Pauls words:

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism of death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:1-4

If you claim that Christ has overcome your sins, then why are you still in bondage to it? If you will to do sin rather than the Fathers will, you are not saved. May God reveal the hypocrite's heart and may He give those who have an ear to hear the Holy Spirit to overcome sin. Also, I'm not saying that you can become sinless, but by the power of Christ you can definently overcome it's lusts and desires and I personally witness to this (Against my will I still sin, but I have no desire or joy in it nor do I try to make up excuses or justify myself before God).

If you have any questions to ask me, or wish to attack this biblical doctrine, please post it and I will be happy to help or defend [NOTE: this is not a Sovereign/Free Will thread!]. My final advice for everyone is to pray to God for a heart of repentance and to read Romans with much prayer that you may understand the profound truth that is revealed. Also, does anyone else feel the same way I do?

look · Sep 19, 2003

Mounts said:
No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. Matthew 6:24

Mounts said:

Mammon is wealth or earthly things. But take the message that Jesus talks about and you can apply the same principles to Christ and sin.

Click to expand...

Um, that's not entirely true...that's only a partial definition. The Greek word that Mammon is translated from is thusly;

Strong's Definition:
#G3126
μαμμωνᾶς
mammōnas
mam-mo-nas'
Of Chaldee origin (confidence, that is, figuratively wealth, personified); mammonas, that is, avarice (deified): - mammon.

Thayer's Definition:
#G3126
μαμμωνᾶς
mammōnas

1) mammon
2) treasure
3) riches (where it is personified and opposed to God)
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayers/Strongs Number: of Aramaic origin (confidence, i.e. wealth, personified)
Citing in TDNT: 4:388, 552

---------------------------------------------------------------

What Jesus is saying is this;
You have two choices, you can serve God and use the best things the world has, to serve God with and fulfill His will,
or
you can serve mammon, which is the looking to it for the purpose of it supplying your needs, instead of God. I like this expression, "Money makes a great servant, but it makes a terrible master..."

Having said all of that, that ties right in with the rest of the scriptures in which your quote was lifted out of (Mt.6:24). In that context, of which your scripture reference was taken out of, Jesus is talking about the needs of man and how even the Gentiles seek after all of that, (roof over your head, bed and food, ect...) but Jesus tells us that we need to seek after or learn of God's Kingdom and it's righteouness and then all of these things will be added to us.

The AMP tells it like this, which I like;
Mt.6:33 But seek (aim at and strive after) first of all His kingdom and His righteousness (His way of doing and being right), and then all these things taken together will be given you besides.

The plainest way I can explain it to you would be, make God your source, not your own ability or things...

After having passed the goal of explaining the meaning of the word, mammon, now it's time to tell you and all who will listen...

Money is not evil, the love of money is what is the root of all evil!

You can serve God and use money to serve Him. If God wanted you to give a ministry a private jet for the purpose of that ministry doing more (Money is a tool) for God, would that be wrong? Is there anything wrong with your spiritual father or pastor to even have a brand new refrigerator or (God forbid...) a new car, as a gift?

Religion will try to teach you that it is Godly to be in poverty, beware...Satan will, for obvious reasons, try to handicap the preaching of the Gospel with the poverty mentality. We can get this thing wrapped up alot sooner if we had the finances to underwrite or finance everything God has called us to do. Why can't a ministry have the ablity to preach the Gospel to such a large number of people that you can see a million people saved in a five day crusade? Why shouldn't there be twenty such ministries doing that? The religious poverty mentality has hobbled the body of Christ for far too long, it's time to break out of it and do glorious things for God and the Kingdom of God!

As for the rest of what you said, you are right on...

We are called to be holy, even as He is holy. To be holy means to be separated from the world's way of being and doing right. God wants us to do and act in His ways, not the world's ways.

One piece of advice, get you another Bible, MacArthur's study Bible is loaded with erroneous doctrines. Including the doctrine of the shed Blood of Jesus, among other things...and that's all I'm going to say about John MacArthur...

Mounts · Sep 19, 2003

Dear Look,

Religion will try to teach you that it is Godly to be in poverty, beware...Satan will, for obvious reasons, try to handicap the preaching of the Gospel with the poverty mentality.

You put a mighty agrument for earthly riches...(I strongly disagree [with all my heart; in fact, I counter with Satan uses material wealth to handicap the Gospel] with it also) but... I wasn't talking about money or earthly riches at all. Did you not read my post, or are you really that eager to argue that you'll correct me on a trivial matter that wasn't even the subject of what I was talking about? I don't wish to continue the debate of material wealth in this thread.

I'm talking about obedience to Christ. Many professing slaves to Christ are actually slaves to sin. That was the heart of this. So please, tell me what you think of that subject rather than the trivial matters. Anyway, no offense, but I'm just determined to not get off subject: Obey Christ.

Also, advice rejected. John MacArthur is a wise man of God; though, of course not perfect for no man is.

Sharky · Sep 20, 2003

"Also, does anyone else feel the same way I do?"

Yes i do too.

"I have had Christians reply that such a thing is not a work, but that is plain ignorance because yes, it is something you are doing to earn salvation"

"For with a heart a person believes (adheres to, trusts in and relies on Christ) and so is justified (declared righteous, acceptable to God) and with the mouth he confesses (declares openly and speaks out freely his faith) and confirms [his] salvation." ROM 10:10

"Either you hate sin and love Christ, or you love sin and hate Christ. Either you are loyal to Christ and despise sin, or you are loyal to sin and despise Christ."
Correct.

Does that mean if a christian sins, he loves sin? NO.
Real christians want nothing more than to be free of sin. Please becareful who you generalise to be a Christian and a professing christian. Even better, don't.

look · Sep 20, 2003

Mounts said:
I'm talking about obedience to Christ.

So am I!!!

Mounts said:
I'm talking about obedience to Christ. Many professing slaves to Christ are actually slaves to sin. That was the heart of this. So please, tell me what you think of that subject rather than the trivial matters.

I did, here, I'll repost it here for you, in case you failed to see it;
As for the rest of what you said, you are right on...
We are called to be holy, even as He is holy. To be holy means to be separated from the world's way of being and doing right. God wants us to do and act in His ways, not the world's ways.

[c]OBEY JESUS, IN ALL OF HIS WORDS!!! NOT JUST PICK AND CHOOSE!!![/c]

MikeMcK · Sep 20, 2003

Mounts said:
Dear Christians and all who profess to be Christian: Listen to what happened to me today, I have an important message to tell to all:

I am a senior in high school and many of my classmates profess to be Christians, but God has given me the gift to judge their heartsand I discerned that they, in fact, do not believe in Jesus Christ.

Interesting. Could you please show us where in the Bible God has given this gift of judging men's hearts?

Mounts · Sep 20, 2003

Interesting. Could you please show us where in the Bible God has given this gift of judging men's hearts?

1 Corinthians 12:4-11

But the gift Im talking about is in verse 10: the gift of discerning of spirits. Human spirits that is. But if you want an absolutely clear reference in scripture, take a look at Malachi 3:18:

Then you shall gain discern between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve Him (Malachi 3:18).

Im not saying I have some magical power to read their spirit; Im saying, by their words and actions, I can use scripture to discern if they are giving God glory or not. Its a gift obtained by studying the scripture, given by God.

Also, that wasn't what I ment when I said I would defend my docrtine. My subject is obedience to Christ, and I don't wish to talk about minor things.

I did, here, I'll repost it here for you, in case you failed to see it;
As for the rest of what you said, you are right on...
We are called to be holy, even as He is holy. To be holy means to be separated from the world's way of being and doing right. God wants us to do and act in His ways, not the world's ways. look

I understand you said those things, but before that you were talking about earthly riches and how God wants us rich [which again, I strongly disagree according to the teaching of Jesus], which had nothing to do with what I was talking about. What I meant with my reply wasdont get off subject, please.

Does that mean if a christian sins, he loves sin? NO.
Real christians want nothing more than to be free of sin. Please becareful who you generalise to be a Christian and a professing christian. Even better, don't.

I addressed what your talking about, Sharky, very specifically. Please read what I say before you accuse me of mishandling the word. More clearly, I'm saying that a Christian cannot enjoy or will to do sin and be saved, for that completely negates scripture's teachings on Christ, who lives within us, overcoming death and sin.

Even better, dont." I disagree. The glory of God is too important not to discern it! Paul explains in many of his epistles that the church is to discern so that the lump in the leaven can be reformed to create a new leavena pure Church that gives glory to God.

Anyway, Christians, I believe this is a very important topic, so please post your thoughts.

look · Sep 20, 2003

Mounts said:
Anyway, Christians, I believe this is a very important topic, so please post your thoughts.

I tried to, then you jumped all over me about it...

What is the matter with you?

Mounts · Sep 20, 2003

Dear Look,

Please read your first post again. What is your main topic? You spent tons of words and paragraphs talking about earthly riches and the definition of mammon, but you spent a few sentences on a unsalted agreement of what I was talking about--obeying Jesus. Do you not understand my point?

And again: If you are going to post something, let it be on the issue at hand. I do not want to get off track defending minor biblical issues--I'm only interested in discussing sin and obedience.

SavedByGrace3 · Sep 20, 2003

Mounts said:
Dear Christians and all who profess to be Christian: Listen to what happened to me today, I have an important message to tell to all:

Dear Friend who loves the Lord,

How does your heart measure up against your own words?

Mat 12:37
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Are you confident of a heavenly reward?
Do you know anyone else who is?

Lord Bless you!
Didy

Mounts · Sep 20, 2003

Dear Didy,

Great scripture message you brought up and it fits perfectly with what I was saying. I would also like to add the verses before it:

"Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit." (Matthew 12:33)

Again, you are known to be a Christian by what you do and the words you speak is mearly an aboundance of the heart:

"For out of the abudance of the heart the mouth speaks." (Matthew 12:34b)

So if you speak of evil things, your heart is revealed. If you speak of good things, then your blessed heart is revealed. This is a good test you can use to self-examine your love for Christ.

Yes, if Christ is in your heart, confess Him with your mouth. If Christ isn't in your heart and you claim to love Him, it is but idle chatter.

Thank you for your wisdom Didy (or did I misunderstand your words?).

And in answer to your question, yes I am confident of an heavenly reward. Why? Because by the power of Christ I have overcome sin's lusts and desire. I no longer will to do the will of sin but the will of the Father in heaven. That is my confidence, and my trust is in Christ. I am nothing, but Christ is strenght, power, and wisdom.

jbarcher · Sep 20, 2003

I like it...

And it really does hurt to see "Christians" talking about sin rather than how they can repent it.

My own father who calls himself a Christian and sits on the Elder's board watches television programs for the purpose of staring at females. I have looked into his eyes and saw the burning lust, totally uncontrolled and unchecked. I can only conclude that he is an actor and those who allow him to be in such a position in the church are lacking as well. And yes, I can see lust in one's eyes. It disgusts me quite effectively.

look · Sep 20, 2003

I can see that this thread is going to tick some "O.S.A.S." people off...

SavedByGrace3 · Sep 20, 2003

sweetsoulsong said:
I like it...

And it really does hurt to see "Christians" talking about sin rather than how they can repent it.

My own father who calls himself a Christian and sits on the Elder's board watches television programs for the purpose of staring at females. I have looked into his eyes and saw the burning lust, totally uncontrolled and unchecked. I can only conclude that he is an actor and those who allow him to be in such a position in the church are lacking as well. And yes, I can see lust in one's eyes. It disgusts me quite effectively.

People all over... beliervers; are trapped in the bondage of sin of the flesh. They are in the grasp of it and do not want it. If they are born again, they hate it. They hate every second of it. The righteous spirit of Christ within them cries out against it. They do not know how to get free.
If your father is a believer, then he is not an actor. He is not a wolf in sheeps clothing. He is a sheep in the grasp of darkness. He is surrounded by darkness. He cannot find his way out and his heart is grieved greatly.
This is the state of many many believers. They just do not know how to get free. They are trapped and need the help of those around them to escape. They do not need additional condemnation and guilt. These things only serve to tighten the grasp of the darkness that surrounds them. They need your prayers, your compassion, and your understanding. Remember they are not evil. They are only trapped and in great danger.
We as belevers must be very careful not to become pharasees in our treatment of brothers who are weak and in darkness. They need your help... not your rejection.

Yes. They need to repent of the sin. But condemnation will not help. They need faith to overcome the strength of sin over their lives. They need the Word to enter into their heart and mind that will help them overcome the flesh and the darkness that envelops them.

Mounts · Sep 20, 2003

Yes. They need to repent of the sin. But condemnation will not help. They need faith to overcome the strength of sin over their lives. They need the Word to enter into their heart and mind that will help them overcome the flesh and the darkness that envelops them.

They need the power of Christ (the Word; John 1:1,2) to overcome sin.
Thanks for your words, please continue to help this thread out. As I said before, I feel this is one of the most important issues in Christianity right under Christ crucified and raised again on the third day.

I wished to ask you a question didaskalos. As I've read scripture- it seemed to me that you can't believe and be in bondange in sin at the same time, for that's Christ's power--for us to overcome sin. I hold this pretty close to my heart, but could you show me a scripture perhaps that I might have missed that defends what you said? I definently do not want to preach a half-truth. I, from my understanding of the scripture, firmly believe one cannot be in bondage to sin and have Christ living inside him. Please correct me if I am wrong, with scripture of course. My ears are open.

But these are some of the verses I use to justify my point:

"For if we have been planted together in the likness of his death, we shall be also in the likness of his ressurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

"For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that He died, He died unto sin once: but in that He liveth, He liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof." (Romans 6:5-12)

Again, I'm not talking about never sinning, but from these verses state that we should not be in bondage to it (or, hybitually commiting it). So can someone really be a believer but hybitually commiting a sin? I will consider any argument you give with scripture.

SavedByGrace3 · Sep 20, 2003

Mounts said:
Again, I'm not talking about never sinning, but from these verses state that we should not be in bondage to it (or, habitually commiting it). So can someone really be a believer but habitually commiting a sin? I will consider any argument you give with scripture.

I will not argue a point that is so correct. We of course should never... never... never sin.

I have maintained an internet Web Bible school for going on 10 years. Before that (before the web that is) I mailed out the lessons via email. Before that I taught the lessons in church. This as far back as the mid 70s. One of the collection of lessons was/is "How to Never Sin Again."
I believe this is both the mandate and possiblity that God has delivered to us because of what Jesus did on the cross and in the new birth. I believe we have been given the power and ability to never sin. I think this is actually a step beyond where you have taken this topic. You mention "habitual sin." I believe we can completely overcome the flesh. Totally!
I am saying this to ward off any preconception that I am somehow giving license to sin. As you can see by the previous paragraph, that is certainly not true.

Believers exist in three parts, and each of these three parts exist in a different "realm" or "sphere":

1Th 5:
23 And may God Himself who gives peace, make you entirely holy; and may your spirits, souls and bodies be preserved complete and be found blameless at the Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He will also perfect His work.

We have spirits, souls, and bodies. Some confuse the spirit and soul as being the same thing. But Hebrews clearly separates them:

Hebrews 4:
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Each of these three parts need to be sanctified, or made holy. It is possible and in fact the normal condition of the believer to be at different levels of holiness in each of these three parts. The spirit is righteous, while the flesh needs crucifying. The soul (the mind and emotions) needs to be renewed. These things do not happen to you when you are born again. When you are born again, your spirit is replaced with the spirit of Christ. The old is made new. The old is gone. But you still have the same soul and flesh you had before. It is not gone. It has not been made new. We all have some work to do in the area of the flesh.
If we walk according to the impulses and leadings of our new born spirit, we will never sin. There is no sin in our new born spirits:
1Jo 3:
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

John of course is not talking about the flesh or mind here. He is talking about the spirit that has been born into you. The "seed" mentioned here is the spirit, not the flesh. If you follow that spirit, you cannot sin. There is no sin there.

The power of sin lies in the flesh:
1Jo 2:
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Also in this new spirit that He has given us lies the power to overcome sin in the flesh:

1Jo 5:
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

If we are going to overcome "the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life", we are going to do it by our faith.
Our faith is going to overcome the world and the sin that is in our flesh.
And so this leads me to my main point. If we are under fear and condemnation... where do we get the faith to we need to overcome the sin? Fear and condemnation are the opposite of faith. They cause one to flee from God. Fear causes us to hide. Condemnation causes us to run from the throne of grace... not to it.

Heb 4:
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

It is when we sin that we desperately need Him. It is then that we need the throne of grace. How do people under condemnation and guilt come boldly before the throne of Grace? They do not.

So here is the answer to your question:
We can approach the thone of grace in time of need because we know that despite our sins and our weakness in the flesh, He is still on our side, and He is taken care of the guilt and condemnation. He no longer sees our sins... even the ones we commit today. Jesus took away the sins of the world. Do you believe this? Do you believe if He took them then they are gone? I do! I trust you do too!

So where does that leave us in regards to justice and the sins we commit? Paul, Jesus, and John mention this at length. What happens when a Christian sins?
This post is to long now. I will continue if you desire.
Blessings
Didy

water_ripple · Sep 20, 2003

didaskalos said:
Yes. They need to repent of the sin. But condemnation will not help. They need faith to overcome the strength of sin over their lives. They need the Word to enter into their heart and mind that will help them overcome the flesh and the darkness that envelops them.

They need the power of Christ (the Word; John 1:1,2) to overcome sin.
Thanks for your words, please continue to help this thread out. As I said before, I feel this is one of the most important issues in Christianity right under Christ crucified and raised again on the third day.

I think you both are right.

When Jesus Christ was approached by sinners He recieved them with love, and commanded them to go and sin no more. I think this is an important way in which to deal with people who are struggling with sin, but does not imply that one should keep sinning. I myself am struggling with the sin of smoking. (the bible does not actually come out and address it as a sin, but I feel that if I am endangering my life by smoking then I am limiting my ability to do the will of God) I do not judge others for doing it. If I did judge others for this I would be a hypocrite. It is me personally that is having this struggle.

water_ripple · Sep 20, 2003

Hey Didy and Mount

Sometimes I think CF is better than church. I hate to be lukewarm, (I have been guilty of this) and you two are approaching faith with a passionate heat! Inspiring

Mounts · Sep 20, 2003

Dear Didy,

This is a very good ministry! I will read it agian, and consider your words as I continue to search through the scriptures. Yes, please continue and I promise that your posts are not in vain.

It brings up questions naturally,

When you say, "He no longer sees our sins, even the one's we commit today." The Father chastens those whom He loves, and I have to wonder how He would do that if He forgets our sins in the present age. Yes, I believe Christ has paid for our past, present, and future sins but does God really not see the sins we commit today to correct us when we go astray?

Yes, I knew that we all have a soul, spirit, and body and that the soul and spirit are different, but I never considered each having a different level of sin--and your points defend such a thought well.

I also want to put up a red flag on your saying, We can overcome sin completly. 1 John 1:8,10 seems to negate that idea. I do think I understand that after Christ renews us to do the will of the Father rather than the will of sin, we are considered righteous in God's eyes; but does that mean we are sinnless? I must admit, I am a little confused. My personal belief is that we can only become perfect and sinless when we are glorified to heaven with a new body and new spirit and see God in all His perfect glory.

I have to be prudent, so I must test what you say with scripture, but I believe we are both at the same heart and sharing the common salvation of Christ.

Mounts · Sep 20, 2003

Hey water ripple!

I hate to be lukewarm, (I have been guilty of this) and you two are approaching faith with a passionate heat! Inspiring

And God hates people of being lukewarm (Revelation 3:16), which is a very good point to bring up, so thank you very much!

And always remember these comforting words:

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9). Which you have clearly confessed to us, and hopefully, the Lord.

I myself am struggling with the sin of smoking. (the bible does not actually come out and address it as a sin, but I feel that if I am endangering my life by smoking then I am limiting my ability to do the will of God) [/Quote]

I have to marvel at this! I am against smoking just for general health, but I have always felt the same way about it as you do; I never thought anyone else did! Some Biblical advice on this matter would be:

Smoking is not a sin,
But if you offend your conscience, you sin.
However, since it is not a sin, you can rightfully smoke conscience free.

One of Paul's epistles talks of food sacrificed to idols. He says the same things I just said, but I simply replaced smoking. If I find the scripture, I'll edit this post and post it (Because I find words meanless and unprofitable unless scripture backs you up). However, I think it is a very good idea to quite.

Thanks for your thoughts, they really inspire me to stick with CF to learn and teach--I was thinking of leaving because no one seemed interested in these important things I was talking about. But if I can help someway, I'll gladly stay!

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