Are The Ten Commandments still an issue for our Salvation?

allhart · Jan 11, 2009

JTKIRK said:
I ask this question of all,
"Are The Ten Commandments, still an issue for our Salvation?"

I would like to know what you think and why.
What Biblical refrences you use, to justify your answers.
What your particular denomination or pastor etc, teach.
If you think, some or all have been changed, please explain which ones or how etc.

Looking Forward to the responses. JTK

Do we not live by the ethics and morals, that are written in the Bible?

Read Matthew 5:17-20 Also Read Romans 8 all of it.
In this part of my Journey I realize that we should swap out judgment for his strength and power. Out of his Grace. Leaving vengeance and justice up to him, however; we have to have objective morals based in and around absolute truth. Loving our neighbors as our selves. Even if people don't except the first commandment Jesus stated: Love your God with all your heart, soul, mind and with all your strength. God is love and as a child of God. If he asks me to take out the trash. Out of love for him I will... It's in like the movie "Fred Clauses" All the children are good. What is the circumstance that made them act out? Why are people acting out badly? Most people act out badly because they are hurt, sacred and are alone. I say if I can't forgive. How can I be forgiven. If its about you. The burden is on you....If it's about Jesus Christ the burden is on him!

b&wpac4 · Jan 11, 2009

allhart said:
Read Isaiah 53 in which is B.C. " before Christ" Then read the new testament in which A.D.is Anno Domini ( from the Latin) or the year of our Lord. Not after[Jesus] death. I take it you are Jewish? and if so God bless you and your people, but Read for yourself with out any presuppositions.Please

No, I'm not. I just like asking hard questions and know a lot about Jewish culture and beliefs.

allhart · Jan 11, 2009

b&wpac4 said:
No, I'm not. I just like asking hard questions and know a lot about Jewish culture and beliefs.

Right On!

b&wpac4 · Jan 11, 2009

allhart said:
Right On!

In relation to Isaiah 53, Jews would not have thought it was referencing their messiah. For example, reading the New Testament, when Christ died the disciples were sad and doubted the resurrection. Why would they do this if they understood Isaiah 53 to refer to the messiah's death and resurrection?

allhart · Jan 11, 2009

b&wpac4 said:
In relation to Isaiah 53, Jews would not have thought it was referencing their messiah. For example, reading the New Testament, when Christ died the disciples were sad and doubted the resurrection. Why would they do this if they understood Isaiah 53 to refer to the messiah's death and resurrection?

They wrote about this within 30 years of the resurrection, so the pharisees and their knowledge was looking at real time advents and as far as the disappointment of the disciples. I don't know why for I wasn't their. They saw lots of miracles and still had doubt. "Surreal" They where leaning on their own understanding.

b&wpac4 · Jan 11, 2009

allhart said:
They wrote about this within 30 years of the resurrection, so the pharisees and their knowledge was looking at real time advents and as far as the disappointment of the disciples. I don't know why for I wasn't their. They saw lots of miracles and still had doubt. "Surreal" They where leaning on their own understanding.

The point is, the disciples would have believed when Jesus died, he would have going to Abraham's bosom and could not have imagined Jesus being resurrected. It was simply not what they believed would happen.

They also did not believe that Jesus' purpose was to be the ultimate sacrifice to erase sin. They followed their traditions of praying for repentance, blood sarcifices, and the celebration of Yom Kippur.

I will stop here because going more would take this even more off topic!

allhart · Jan 11, 2009

b&wpac4 said:
The point is, the disciples would have believed when Jesus died, he would have going to Abraham's bosom and could not have imagined Jesus being resurrected. It was simply not what they believed would happen.

They also did not believe that Jesus' purpose was to be the ultimate sacrifice to erase sin. They followed their traditions of praying for repentance, blood sarcifices, and the celebration of Yom Kippur.

I will stop here because going more would take this even more off topic!

The holy Spirit is our helper now. Not as Jesus was to them in the flesh. I don't know what they comprehended. Gods explaining things to us is like us trying to explain ourselves to a cockroach. Its just to much to take in and a lot of time we don't get it until its all said and done. We have to ponder Jesus' words of substance with concentration/ wisdom.

JTKIRK · Jan 11, 2009

We have to ponder Jesus' words of substance with concentration/ wisdom.[/quote]

Not only ponder but understand. He said that we should follow his fathers commandments and gave us 2 more. Thus the 10 still apply.

KCKID · Jan 11, 2009

JTKIRK said:
We have to ponder Jesus' words of substance with concentration/ wisdom.

Not only ponder but understand. He said that we should follow his fathers commandments and gave us 2 more. Thus the 10 still apply.[/quote]

Sounds like it. That's 10+2=12.

Actually the command pertaining to God would be commands 1-4. The command pertaining to neighbor would be commands 5-10. So, the commands that Jesus gave were not new, per se.

Actually, UNLESS one keeps commands 1-4 they CANNOT show love to God! And, THAT includes the 4th!

billwald · Jan 11, 2009

There is nothing in Exodus thru Deut that claims to apply to gentiles outside of Israel or to anyone's status in the next life.

KCKID · Jan 11, 2009

billwald said:
There is nothing in Exodus thru Deut that claims to apply to gentiles outside of Israel or to anyone's status in the next life.

So ...it's fine then for Gentiles to ignore the commands not to kill, steal, dishonor, commit adultery, etc.? Just for the Jews, eh? Interesting.

Polycarp_fan · Jan 12, 2009

BigBadWlf said:
If we live under a new covanant then no, the fall into the old law and were suplemented by the comandment of Jesus

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” John 13:34

“Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” Romans 13:8-10

So then, since Jesus gave the Ten Commandments to Moses, there are Eleven Commandments now?

OldWiseGuy · Jan 12, 2009

BigBadWlf said:
If we live under a new covanant then no, the fall into the old law and were suplemented by the comandment of Jesus

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. John 13:34

Jesus gave the disciples a new "command", not new "commandMENT". He was telling the disciples that there was a new and better way to keep the commandments, and that he had demonstrated it to them while he was with them.

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-10

Romans 13 deals with repentance under the Mosaic Law, and has nothing to do with Jesus's new command. Read the whole chapter and you will see this.

owg

JTKIRK · Jan 12, 2009

Polycarp_fan said:
So then, since Jesus gave the Ten Commandments to Moses, there are Eleven Commandments now?

Jesus gave the Ten Commandments to Moses and now there are Eleven?????? What have you been on?

radlad72 · Jan 12, 2009

KCKID said:
So ...it's fine then for Gentiles to ignore the commands not to kill, steal, dishonor, commit adultery, etc.? Just for the Jews, eh? Interesting.

It is interesting how people believe the Big 10 are only for the Jews. They were formally given to Moses before the word Jew has ever been coined. Not only that, but there are examples of people well before Exodus 20 following the 10 Commandments without them being written down anywhere.

They were given to the Israelites and as Paul says, we (Gentiles) have now been grafted into Israel if we follow Jesus. Therefore we are also bound by the Big 10. It is pretty simple. We don't follow them because we have to to be saved. We follow them because we are saved and Jesus says that if we love Him we will keep His Commandments and they are not burdensome.

It is all very simple. There are just so many people who complicate things by trying to put their own religious bent onto the Scriptures (many people do this) but if we just read what is there and study it with what is written in the rest of the Bible, we will understand and it will be easy. The 10 Commandments are for everyone, both 'Jew' and 'Greek'.

KCKID · Jan 12, 2009

JTKIRK said:
Jesus gave the Ten Commandments to Moses and now there are Eleven?????? What have you been on?

What have you been on ...didn't you read the post to which PC_F was responding?

JTKIRK · Jan 13, 2009

KCKID said:
What have you been on ...didn't you read the post to which PC_F was responding?

Yes actually I did KC and the question to him still stands. Maybe he should qualify his statement better, You seem hot on that topic (qualification of posts) with me (in RL), but refrain from telling others to do so. A contradiction in attitudes hmmmm.

JTKIRK · Jan 14, 2009

radlad72 said:
It is interesting how people believe the Big 10 are only for the Jews. They were formally given to Moses before the word Jew has ever been coined. Not only that, but there are examples of people well before Exodus 20 following the 10 Commandments without them being written down anywhere.

They were given to the Israelites and as Paul says, we (Gentiles) have now been grafted into Israel if we follow Jesus. Therefore we are also bound by the Big 10. It is pretty simple. We don't follow them because we have to to be saved. We follow them because we are saved and Jesus says that if we love Him we will keep His Commandments and they are not burdensome.

It is all very simple. There are just so many people who complicate things by trying to put their own religious bent onto the Scriptures (many people do this) but if we just read what is there and study it with what is written in the rest of the Bible, we will understand and it will be easy. The 10 Commandments are for everyone, both 'Jew' and 'Greek'.

Correct Rad, Although I would suggest that some will not agree, with you.

JTKIRK · Jan 16, 2009

When people try to follow and live by the Ten Commandments are we not also following the rules of a civilized society.

Are The Ten Commandments still an issue for our Salvation?

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