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Are the Jews appearing in the first part of the bible, the same one's now?

BlackSabbath

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I was just kind of curious about that.

I look at history, and I know many I think refer to them with different terms. Have they always been called the "jews" and are they still generally the same as when they starting writing the bible, before, Jesus and even Rome? I just find it interesting to be honest.

As well, one thing that realy confuses me, in thr bible the Jews were said to be slaves in Egypt, but yet noe in popular culture and the entertainment industry, I see amfee famous Jewish celebrities having Egyptian themed stage designs, costumes and even music videos. I also notice some contention between and Jews.

This video is a good example...
 

Creech

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Spiritual Jews, which is the spiritual Israel, are Christians and those faithful to God. Modern-day jews may be ethnically/genetically connected to the jews of the Bible, but they are not the Jews that hold to the commandments of God as they turned away from the Messiah, the Son of God. They are physical jews, but certainly not connected spiritually to the jews of the Old Testament.
 
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BlackSabbath

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Ah yes, there feels something vaue ans unexplained regarding the Jews of the old testament and many today. I wondered though, are most Jews on the same page or do they waiver a lot in terms of their beliefs? Do perhaps some believe differently or perhaps much divergence to their particular beliefs?

I know it's controversial, but I was really liberal for a long time, and liked Karl Mart, and generally a lot of Jewish peole are big proponents of the left often. I used to be a big fan of Noam Chomsky and I know Karl Mart is Jewish, as well, amongst other things.

There's a small chance some of my family might be Jewish a bit though I am not altogether sure. I believe perhaps Ashkenazi and apparently many white Jewish people in particular seem to have features particular only to themselves. I notice that, not many races do, even though it is hard to differentiate between white europeans and white jews.

I was also curious, why do so many of the English look so similair to the many of the Jews? I read somewhere this woman claimed the Royal Family were descendants of the Davidic line. I just find it all quite interesting.
 
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MyGivenNameIsKeith

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There is a spiritual essence of God's chosen people. Most overlook this crucial fact. Hence why even the bible states :
Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
While Old Testament refers to them as Jews, we as Christians are one and the same tree.
Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Read this for a more in depth look at true following of God vs. others. Explains every variation.
What Are the Differences Between Judaism and Christianity?
 
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Another Lazarus

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BlackSabbath

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Well since the English and Jews look so similair I wonder, domthe Jews look like the English or do the English look like the Jews? The Jews testament were generally all portrayed as looking a certain way, much like the painting I added. I also find it strange, I noticed that generally though(it's a weird thing to notice)

But I noticed that many paintings trying to capture certain events that took place in the bible, often portray the individuals involved as looking a certain way. Like for example, (I don't think it was just Michelengelo)

I have not gotten around to getting a DNA test, but I in particular have eyes like David's in the painting or how they are often drawn. I just find all that stuff interesting I guess. Ha ha.
 

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BlackSabbath

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Thanks. I have a hard time intepreting some of that old english writing style. Like "they are not all isreal, which is of isreal" I think I can,understand it, but it takes me longer then most things I read and I am not really used to this. Is Isreal that significant to Christians and Jews?
 
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BlackSabbath

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Oh wait, sorry, I did not see an edit but.

But I know Isreal, parts of the Middle East, it used to be called Mesopatamia and I saw in some documentaries, some historians believe that it iswhere "Eden" could have in actuality existed, amongst many of the first civilizations.

I just find it fascinating and wonder how it all fits together. Those are my eyes as well, they are Ashkenazi Jews apparently which are European, Middle Eastern. A lot of my family has features like that, I find it peculiar and strange. Refering or using the term Isreal, is that even what it was callled back then? Lol.


Edit: okay wait, I just realized it is predominately Middle eastern people that have eyes like that. I've heard a lot of black people (but all black people) claiming they were the original Jews or Hebrews in the Bible. I think it is kind of interesting, I think it is just James Cameron's hypothesis, but I believe Avatar was based on something to due with all of this. I think that perhaps, it could have been the Sub Saharan indegenious Africans, lol at some point. They are relatively caucasoid despite being black and would make more sense perhaps.
 

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Radagast

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Well, first there were the 12 Israelite tribes, descended from Jacob. Most of the 10 tribes were carried into exile and not seen again.

The 2 tribes were also exiled, but many eventually returned. "Jew" means "from Judah."

After Jesus time, many Jews became Christian, gave up their Jewish ways, and mixed in with other Jewish Christians.

The people called "Jews" now are mostly descended from the Pharisees of Jesus' day.
 
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Tom 1

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As I understand it the tribe of Israel started with Abraham, though Isaac and then to Jacob, named by God as Israel. There were already Semitic peoples however (i.e descendants of Shem), I think it’s just that Abraham’s bloodline became the chosen tribe within those people.
 
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BlackSabbath

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Ah yes, I forgot about that, I sort of thought that but had no way to prove it.

I'll probably figure it out on my own, I don't even know if I have to, but I still wonder what the Egyptian imahery has to do with anything. The American dollar has a pyramid with the eye of providence on it. This has been both a Christian and Illuminati symbol (whether or not the iluminati still exist) and i wonder if the Jees in the entertainment industry are trying to scare people due to whatever the pyramids stand for in America on th dollar bill. I sorta get it, ehat the eye and pyramid mean, but it is difficult to be sure.
 
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MyGivenNameIsKeith

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Seeking God with your mind only is a path that leads to more questions that will never find true answers. God is revealed to us spiritually; spiritual things are spiritually discerned. Pyramids and all that nonsense is mere geometry given a spiritual connotation and is a basis for the sun-god myth commonly shown in the Scriptures as asheroth, marduk, etc. It has to do with basing what can be seen and applying that to God. Thus the number of man is revealed. The common "number of the beast", etc.. It has perfect natural mathematical applications. The sum of the first 36 numbers. A triangular number, written in roman numerals includes all the occurrences exactly one time (under 1000), etc.
My point, is that seeking God with a physical eye, and not opening up to what can only be seen with your heart, will only lead you down a dark confused path. Stick to the bible. trust it. you will do fine.
 
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MyGivenNameIsKeith

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Not everyone who is of "Israel" is of his chosen people. is one way to interpret it. Israel is the "promise", it is a term used to denote god's chosen people. Some would argue with me on this next point, but I think if you were to say in a biblical sense, who spiritual Israel really is, would be to call modern day Christians, Israelites. Seeing as how the Bible clearly identifies Christians with Israel, it is not out of place. So don't mistake modern day Judaism with the Jews of old. Case and point, look at Paul and his conversion upon the road to Damascus. He was a Jew, very zealous, and persecuted Christians. Jesus spoke to him. From then on Paul preached the gospel. There is a lot to get overwhelmed by in learning the Bible, so keep in mind, that as spiritual "babes" (babies, children, rookies, or whatever) we need milk (spiritual) first and then when we grow (spiritually) we get meat (spiritual). Reading the Bible several times is the first place I would start, along with prayer, all while loving God.
 
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ViaCrucis

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The English word "Jew" comes to us through several languages, ultimately from the Hebrew word Yehudim, meaning something like "Judahites" that is, "people from Judah".

Originally there was one kingdom, Israel, which was ruled by Saul, then David, then Solomon. After Solomon the kingdom was divided into the Northern Kingdom of Israel and the Southern Kingdom of Judah. The Northern Kingdom fell around the 7th century BC to the Assyrian Empire, leaving only the Southern Kingdom free. However in the 5th century BC the Babylonian Empire conquered Judah and took the people captive; and the captives in exile came to identify themselves less by their Tribal affiliation (the twelve tribes of Israel, as Benjamanites, or as Simeonites, etc) and more as Jews. Yehudim, the people of the Southern Kingdom of Judah now in a shared experience as captives.

When the coalition of Medes and Persians conquered Babylon, the king Cyrus gave an edict which allowed the Jews to return to their homeland, rebuild Jerusalem and the Temple. Judah remained a province of the Persian Empire, but the Jews had religious freedom and were allowed a certain amount of self-rule; as the Persian Empire allowed religious freedom and gave subjugated peoples limited autonomy--which helped stabilize the Empire internally.

In the mid-4th century BC Alexander, King of Macedonia in Greece began conquering, first he united all the Greek city states and realms under his banner, and then set to conquer the Persian Empire, which at the time stretched from Egypt to the Indus River--it was by far the largest empire that had ever existed at that point in history. In Alexander's conquest of Persia he also conquered Judah, and the Jews became subjects of the Greek Empire. When Alexander the Great died, his empire divided among his generals, known as the Diadochi, who then turned on one another. Alexander's general Ptolemy took Egypt and up through Judah, and generally the Ptolemies allowed the Jews a fairly great deal of freedom--they continued to worship freely.

However the Seleucids who ruled Syria went to war with the Ptolemies several times, in a series of wars known as the Syrian Wars. And finally the Seleucid king Antiochus IV Epiphanes successfully conquered Judah and took it away from the Ptolemies. Under Antiochus the Jews suffered a great deal as the Seleucids tried to force the Jews into becoming Greeks--adopting Greek customs, forbidding circumcision, prohibiting rest on the Sabbath, and the most serious and egregious offense came when Antiochus had a pig sacrificed in the Holy of Holies in honor of the Greek god Zeus and installed an image of Zeus in the Jewish Temple.

This act, along with all the various acts of oppression against the Jews, eventually led to an armed uprising under the Maccabees, the two brothers Jonathan and Judas Maccabeus. Who successfully overthrew the Seleucids, and for the first time in centuries the Jews were independent and the Maccabean Kingdom of Judah had a king again in the form of the Hasmoneans.

However this was short lived, after about a hundred years, Julius Caesar was happily conquering the known world, and under his general Pompeii, Judah fell subject to Roman rule, and the Romans set up a puppet king under the Idumaean (Edomite) Antipater, the father of Herod the Great. The Idumaeans had been force-converted to Judaism under Hasmonean rule about a century earlier.

This was the historic setting of Jesus' birth.

As one might suspect the Jews were not happy about being subjects of another foreign power, and there were several minor uprisings, such as under Judas the Galilean; which led to the rise of the Zealots, militaristic freedom fighters who opposed Roman rule. Finally, however, around 67 AD a Zealot uprising began and full scale war broke out in Judea, Jerusalem fell to the Zealots, who executed many of the priests in the Jewish Temple (who were seen as Roman corroborators), Rome's response was deadly--the armies of the Roman general Titus surrounded and laid seige to Jerusalem, and in 70 AD the city fell, and the Jewish temple fell.

That wouldn't be the last time Jewish rebellion broke out in the Roman Empire. Around 130 AD Simon bar Kochba, who was heralded as the messiah by many Jews, led a massive military campaign that was eventually crushed again by the Romans. This time the Romans took measures to crush any future Jewish rebellion--they expelled all Jews from Jerusalem, and made it a Roman colony, renaming it Aelia Capitolina. Further, the Emperor Hadrian erected a Pagan Temple on the the ruins of the Temple Mount and dedicated it to Jupiter Capitolinus.

This was the beginning of the modern Jewish Diaspora. Jews remained expelled from Aelia Capitolina/Jerusalem for centuries, even after the Roman Empire had become predominantly Christian under the Constantinian dynasty. Jews were briefly permitted to return under Julian the Apostate, who also encouraged a rebuilding of the Jewish Temple, but the plan never came to fruition because Julian died, and his successor Jovian, a Christian, re-instituted the imperial ban against the Jews. It wouldn't be until the Muslim conquest of the region in the 7th century AD that Jews would be permitted to enter Jerusalem again.

There was already a diaspora throughout the Roman world and Mesopotamia, the Arabian peninsula, and Ethiopia, but the events which occurred in Roman times led to an increased Diaspora--and under Pharisaism, Jewish religious focus shifted away from the Temple in Jerualem to the local Jewish community under the rabbinate and synagogue.

Modern Jews are Jews, the descendants of and converts to the religion of those people who experienced all these things. Modern Jews are, indeed, Israelites.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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E.C.

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The Jews today are different than the Jews around the time of Christ and even different from the time of Solomon.

Modern Judaism didn't really become how we know it, with synogogues and rabbis, until the diaspora which CryptoLutheran mentioned in his very well written post. The Hasidic Jews (think long locks of hair, big overcoats, etc) didn't come around until the birth of the Hasidic movement of the early/mid 19th century. The modern State of Israel is culturally dominated by the Ashkenazi Jews of Eastern Europe. Even today, Ethiopian and Mizrahi Jews from the Arab-speaking Middle East are marginalized by the Ashkenazi Jews. Miss Israel of 2013 was an Ethiopian Jew and faced A LOT of discrimination and racial threats from the Ashkenazim.
 
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pshun2404

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Absolutely not! The "Jews" are not even mentioned before the Babylonian captivity and that is because those who went captive in Babylon were of the Kingdom of Judah. The Judahites are those who became known as Jewish...the rest of the Israelites were too dispersed by Assyria and most never returned. Out of those that tried most were rejected (against the examples of God in the pre-Babylon Tanach...examples are Joseph, and his wife and children, Moses and his wives and children, Rehab, Ruth, and many more). The Israelites never congregated at the Tabernacle or Temple (and were never commanded to) for corporate worship on the 7th day. The Israelites ate the Passover Seder on the 14th of Nisan and so on....
 
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