are our future sins forgiven?

funtimes said:

John 5:14 Jesus said to the man He healed not to sin again or his punishment woud be worse.

Exodus 34:7 says we pay for sins for 3 lifetimes and blessings follow for 1000 lifetimes.

That is why some have great lives and others have terrible. There are no coincidences.

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So you are saying that whether we are punished, paying for sins, or having a great/terrible life is all works based?

I claim everything you quoted here is Old Covenant.

ABlessedMan said:

So you are saying that whether we are punished, paying for sins, or having a great/terrible life is all works based?

I claim everything you quoted here is Old Covenant.

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Jesus was not Old Covenant...He said He did not take our consequences for sin.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

funtimes said:

Jesus was not Old Covenant...He said He did not take our consequences for sin.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

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Now you quote the New Covenant.

Jesus was a Jew and while on this earth prior to His crucifixion he lived according to the Law.

He took our punishment for sin, but yes the consequences for sin are part of the curse. When we sin we walk contrary to God's will and we step out into the curse. The consequences of sin will touch us in this walk. This will be true until the last enemy, death, is defeated.

ABlessedMan said:

Now you quote the New Covenant.

Jesus was a Jew and while on this earth prior to His crucifixion he lived according to the Law.

He took our punishment for sin, but yes the consequences for sin are part of the curse. When we sin we walk contrary to God's will and we step out into the curse. The consequences of sin will touch us in this walk. This will be true until the last enemy, death, is defeated.

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Jesus didn't keep the Law, He fullfilled the Law, and that is why He was hated.
Jesus defeated death and now lives in your heart, so you can be in Heaven now. When we sin we lose our walk with God until we repent and we will always have the consequenses of that sin.
We are not under a curse and Satan was defeated.
Deuteronomy 5:9-10 says our soul will never die, but sin will allways be with us.

1 John chapter 2 verse 2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
James chapter 2 verse 13
because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!

disciple1 said:

1 John chapter 2 verse 2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
James chapter 2 verse 13
because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!

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A God of Justice is somehow contradictory to the Emergent idea that God is only grace. Like somehow Christ dying on the cross put God’s righteousness in checkmate. Not according to Jesus it hasn’t, as evidenced by his words on Hell.
Here’s some Scripture in the New Testament where Jesus preached the wrath of God:

• But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire. (Matthew 5:22)
• If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. (Matthew 5:29)
• I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 8:11-12)
• And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matthew 10:28)
• Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. (Matthew 13:40)
• And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. (Matthew 25:46)

Hebrews 9

King James Version (KJV)

1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Here you go. This is the scripture. In verse 26 this says he did it once for all to put away sin. When we recieved forgiveness and cleansed us for all sin he did it for all. Past, present and future. Only Once. We were not born yet when Jesus died for us.

Jesus did not take away punishment for sin as He told the man He had healed John 5:14
Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, "Behold, you are made well. Sin no more, so that nothing worse happens to you."

Hebrews chapter 7 verses 11,12 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood for on the basis of it the law was given to the people why was there still need for another priest to come one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.
verse 18 and 19 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless for the law made nothing perfect and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

funtimes said:

Jesus did not take away punishment for sin as He told the man He had healed John 5:14
Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, "Behold, you are made well. Sin no more, so that nothing worse happens to you."

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Jesus said, "Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will" Matthew 7:21.

So just because you believe in Jesus isn't enough. You have to live you life in a manner God approves of which means "Follow what the bible says" the Bible is Gods word. It is what teaches us to do Gods will.

"In fact, to this [course] YOU were called, because even Christ suffered for YOU, leaving YOU a model for YOU to follow his steps closely." 1Peter 2:21.

"YOU see that a man is to be declared righteous by works, and not by faith alone. In the same manner was not also Ra′hab the harlot declared righteous by works, after she had received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way? Indeed, as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead" James2:24-26

funtimes said:

Jesus said, "Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will" Matthew 7:21.

So just because you believe in Jesus isn't enough. You have to live you life in a manner God approves of which means "Follow what the bible says" the Bible is Gods word. It is what teaches us to do Gods will.

"In fact, to this [course] YOU were called, because even Christ suffered for YOU, leaving YOU a model for YOU to follow his steps closely." 1Peter 2:21.

"YOU see that a man is to be declared righteous by works, and not by faith alone. In the same manner was not also Ra′hab the harlot declared righteous by works, after she had received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way? Indeed, as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead" James2:24-26

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I am sorry but Believing in Jesus is the works. We can not be saved by Works. It is all Grace, nothing we do can get us into Heaven. We are Righteous by Believing In Jesus and nothing more. It is by Grace not Law that we are saved. Jesus paid the price so we don't have to be under The Law.

Tell me then what works is it we must do to enter Heaven?

funtimes said:

Jesus didn't keep the Law, He fullfilled the Law, and that is why He was hated.
Jesus defeated death and now lives in your heart, so you can be in Heaven now. When we sin we lose our walk with God until we repent and we will always have the consequenses of that sin.
We are not under a curse and Satan was defeated.
Deuteronomy 5:9-10 says our soul will never die, but sin will allways be with us.

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You are randomly,quoting every where in the Bible to some how make a point.
This is a Word Of Faith forum,you are trying to teach in,please read forum rules.

funtimes said:

A God of Justice is somehow contradictory to the Emergent idea that God is only grace.

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Where did the Emergent church come in? Word/Faith is not emergent. Word/Faith does not throw out God's Justice. Yes, we do preach God's Grace. [1]

funtimes said:

Like somehow Christ dying on the cross put God’s righteousness in checkmate. Not according to Jesus it hasn’t, as evidenced by his words on Hell.

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Where did you learn the mistaken idea that Word/Faith does not teach Hell?

You seem to be confused as to whom you are talking with.


[1] You are sounding like a Word/Faith critic, and seem to be preaching a message contrary to the congregation of this forum...which is against forum rules in a congregational forum such as this.

now faith said:

You are randomly,quoting every where in the Bible to some how make a point.
This is a Word Of Faith forum,you are trying to teach in,please read forum rules.

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Random is a good way to put it. Either that or the poster thinks they are in a forum other than where they currently are (and do not understand the rules in a congregational forum).

funtimes said:

Jesus did not take away punishment for sin as He told the man He had healed John 5:14
Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, "Behold, you are made well. Sin no more, so that nothing worse happens to you."

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He most certainaly did take away our punishment. He paid completely for our sins so that we do not have to.
Jesus paid the price for the sins of any person who will receive freely His sacrifice. We have been imputed righteousness -- and this is not something that is taken away if we stumble and reinstated by our works of repentence. Our repentence for sins after we are saved is simply to get up pointed back on track, back to the will of God for our lives.

We have been justified. This is not taken away when we stumble, but rather it is complete. Jesus was delivered up for our transgressions. He paid for out sins -- His payment occurred before we were ever born, but takes effect when we accept the sacrifice that He made. His payment is for all of our sins: past, present and future.

funtimes said:

Jesus said, "Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will" Matthew 7:21.

So just because you believe in Jesus isn't enough. You have to live you life in a manner God approves of which means "Follow what the bible says" the Bible is Gods word. It is what teaches us to do Gods will.

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So yours is a works base religion?? This is not Christianity. Mormons teach such works based systems.

Works show our faith. Without our works our faith is shown to be dead -- unused, useless. But our works will never save us.

How are we saved?
What must we do to be saved? Believe. Just believe in Jesus. That's it.

Your works are worthless toward salvation. He saved us completely because we believe. It's called Grace.

funtimes said:

"In fact, to this [course] YOU were called, because even Christ suffered for YOU, leaving YOU a model for YOU to follow his steps closely." 1Peter 2:21.

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And this speaks of salvation....where?? It doesn't. This is speaking of our walk in Christ. Persecution will come to the believer and we are to walk as Christ walked, in faith. This is not salvific.

funtimes said:

"YOU see that a man is to be declared righteous by works, and not by faith alone. In the same manner was not also Ra′hab the harlot declared righteous by works, after she had received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way? Indeed, as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead" James2:24-26

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What version are you quoting from?
Our works show our active faith. Without our works of faith our faith is not active, it is hidden, it is unused. It is weak. Our righteousness is imputed unto us, and is the righteousness of God through Christ Jesus. We accept this through faith by Grace. But our faith must be active, and this is shown through our works. But as Paul tells us, our works do not save:
No one, not one(!), is justified who leans upon their works. Why? Because your works would have to uphold the entire Law, all of the commandments of God, and you simply cannot do this. And if you falter on just one of the laws, then you fall under a curse according to scripture. Repentence then puts to shame what Christ did on the cross for you. You would be crucifying him repeatedly. And this is impossible: for He died once, for all, to redeem you from your sins (ALL of your sins; even the ones you have yet to commit).
You are saved by Grace through faith (and active faith). It's not you. It is not your works. It is a gift (by Grace). It is not your works. It is not your works. (one more time) It is not your works: so that you don't boast.

You are save by Grace through faith. Period.

Stevelee44 said:

I am sorry but Believing in Jesus is the works. We can not be saved by Works. It is all Grace, nothing we do can get us into Heaven. We are Righteous by Believing In Jesus and nothing more. It is by Grace not Law that we are saved. Jesus paid the price so we don't have to be under The Law.

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amen and amen!!

Stevelee44 said:

Hebrews 9
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Here you go. This is the scripture. In verse 26 this says he did it once for all to put away sin. When we recieved forgiveness and cleansed us for all sin he did it for all. Past, present and future. Only Once. We were not born yet when Jesus died for us.

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Amen! Amen! Amen!

ABlessedMan said:

Amen! Amen! Amen!

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So, you use white out and pretent John 5:14 is not right to prove your belief.

We're are cleansed by faith. We walk by faith. We speak and do by faith. Whatever is not from faith, is sin. Sin is the breaking of the law. The law was given because of sin. If we sin and break the law, we need to be cleansed.

We receive our robes of righteousness by repentance and faith. You don't have faith without repentance.

The fact that we can get out of faith in our walk, means that faith has to be nurtured and fought for. It must be continued in, and lay hold of, it must be a deliberate and focused walk. Faith comes by hearing, hearing the law of God in our hearts. God commands us to have faith. If we walk according to our flesh, we reap corruption (not life and faith). Our robes (which we presumably still have on btw) become defiled and we need to become cleansed again.

Blood cleansing = repentance and faith

It is all by the blood. Cleansing only comes by the blood - by repentance and faith. There is no other way. If we believe we are always cleansed when we sin, we wear the robe, but they are spotted or wrinkled. If we say they are clean when they are defiled, we deceive ourselves. It is the belief in the mind that continues to carry over (when it what was FAITH).

This is called presumption. We all walk in it from time to time. Some things coexist in our walks as presumption for years. Our righteousness is received as a gift by faith (not just belief) and then we must walk in the light. Our entrance into the kingdom is by a gift, received by faith.

It MUST be walked out. God didn't give us the gift of obedience. Disobedience is rebellion. Rebellion is a sin judged by the law. We "work out" our salvation with fear and trembling. The obedience comes from walking according to our new nature. Disobedience comes by walking according to our fleshly nature.

Nothing defiled is going to get into the kingdom my friends. That is why our walk is VERY serious. There are no free passes. We must walk in love. We must guard our hearts. The one who believes in the lifetime free pass has a "force" moving "against" that believer that keeps him or her from guarding their heart with all diligence. Preaching this teaches others to disregard that diligence, and that their reward for this (or not doing this) is only in this world. (It can be in both worlds.)

If we don't guard our hearts, the enemy moves in and begins to build strongholds within us (repentance is more difficult). These strongholds keep us in sin. These sins bring judgment into our life. If they exist long enough, the hardening of the heart becomes worse and it is possible to not hear God anymore and not repent. If God is trying to deal with you and you can't hear Him, you can't and won't repent. If you wait too long to do something about it and you die, you don't go to Heaven. Most know when they backslide that they don't have a wedding garment on anymore (you are naked). Backsliding is not going forward, not just taking a lengthy vacation from fulfilling righteousness. That's why the guarding is so important.

God is working within us (our spirits) to will and to do His good pleasure. The devil, if allowed, will work within us to do his wicked pleasure. Our eternal reward will be based on our fruit (our works of all things!)

Many are cast away because they choose not to guard or fight for the faith (your hearing). The sabbath rest of faith comes only by the hearing of faith and obedience (love). This is how we hear more. If we don't walk in what we have, even what we seem to have is taken away. We can go on believing, as many will and call Him Lord, but He only knows the submitted heart, not the corrupt flesh walker who does not repent.

This is not to say that He does not forgive us and that we legalistically work for our righteousness. It's from the rest, as a little child that receives, and then humbly obeys, giving back what they receive.

A believer can be a fool, a transgressor, a sinner, can work iniquity, be a hypocrite, hate his brother, become an unproductive servant, abiding in fear, give offense (even to children), walk in darkness, sow corruption, become a deceiver, a liar, etc.

We can also receive and walk in righteousness, agape love, walk in judgment, equity, wisdom, and understanding, abide in Him, walk in the light, become fruitful, sow resurrection life, walk in the truth of the Word, etc. Our eternal inheritance will depend on these things, coupled with our repentance and faith.