Are Mormon's Christian?

I reject the following "Creed" by English journalist Steve Turner but it really does sum up everything that I find puzzling about the way many, many people seem to think today. Maybe it is postmodernism at its best. Much of what I see reflected in this thread are echoes of this creed.


We believe in MarxfreudandDarwin.
We believe everything is OK
as long as you don't hurt anyone,
to the best of your definition of hurt,
and to the best of your knowledge.

We believe in sex before, during, and
after marriage.
We believe in the therapy of sin.
We believe that adultery is fun.
We believe that sodomy is o.k.
We believe that taboos are taboo.

We believe that everything's getting better
despite evidence to the contrary.
The evidence must be investigated
And you can prove anything with evidence.

We believe there's something in horoscopes,
UFO's and bent spoons.
Jesus was a good man just like Buddha,
Mohammed, and ourselves.
He was a good moral teacher although we think
His good morals were bad.

We believe that all religions are basically the same-
at least the "one" that we read was.
They all believe in love and goodness.
They only differ on matters of creation,
sin, heaven, hell, God, and salvation.

We believe that after death comes the Nothing
Because when you ask the dead what happens
they say nothing.
If death is not the end, if the dead have lied, then it's
compulsory heaven for all
excepting perhaps
_______, Stalin, and Genghis Khan.

We believe in Masters and Johnson.
What's selected is average.
What's average is normal.
What's normal is good.

We believe in total disarmament.
We believe there are direct links between warfare
and bloodshed
Americans should beat their guns into tractors
and the Russians would be sure to follow.

We believe man is essentially good.
It's only his bad behavior that let's him down.
This is the fault of society.
Society is the fault of conditions.
Condition are the fault of society.

We believe that each man must find the truth that
is right for him.
Reality will adapt accordingly.
The universe will readjust.
History will alter.
We believe that there is no absolute truth
excepting the truth
that there is no absolute truth.

We believe in the rejection of creeds
and the flowering of individual thought.

If chance be
the father of all flesh,
disaster is his rainbow in the sky,
and when you hear

State of Emergency!
Sniper kills ten!
Troops on rampage!
Whites go looting!
Bomb blasts school!

It is but the sound of man
worshipping his maker.


My question is how far down this road does each individual want to go? Most have fully embraced this creed. Where does it lead? Can Christianity survive this kind of thought being interjected into it? I see several people trying.

kniht said:

What matters (if you claim to be Christian) is what Jesus' definition of being a Christian is. If you choose to ignore His definition, we can safely say you are not a Christian.

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Provide the text where Jesus defines Christianity.

MarsHill said:

If you are saying that my opinion is wrong then that would mean that you are claiming to have a better one.

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Classic; switching the burden of proof. This is the 3rd time you have used fallacious tactics to dodge my questions. If you cannot answer them then please be honest enough to say so. If you cannot support your assertions then YES they are only opinions, they have no validity.

savedbyfaithinchrist said:

I DONT CARE WHAT YOU CALL YOURSELFS I LOVE YOU AS CHRIST LOVES YOU BUT BE WARNED ABOUT THE BOOK OF MORMAN.

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Funny you should mention this because the Torah/Tanakh warns the same thing about the Greek Scriptures (NT).

peepnklown said:

I find it odd when people pull out statistics out of the air. I understand reposting can be tedious, so do what I do; I type repeatable stuff in WORD and save it for future use. It’s not about doing things the hard way, it’s about integrity. [/color]

My point still stands, 2 do not speak for the majority about their view about CARM. I have seen one of the Mormons posting reject the data CARM has stated.

Exactly! The same thing happens when you mention that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

If you are going to dodge discussing the topics because I am an atheist then please stop talking to me, I do not wish to discuss anything with a person who uses this dishonest tactic. I have an interest in information, it would be the same if you would assert that Santa Claus was female, and I refuted you. I do not need to believe in Santa to discuss it.

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You've already said that you do not wish to discuss anything with a person like me who uses dishonest tactics (your opinion). Why are you still directing questions to me? From what you said I thought that I would just keep using my so-called dishonest tactics and post away and that you would ignore me. Don't change your mind now.

savedbyfaithinchrist said:

REVELATION 22:18-2118 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: REVELATION 22:18-2119 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. REVELATION 22:18-2120 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. REVELATION 22:18-2121 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

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Isnt this passage, in fact this book, an addition to the original manuscript? Can you tell me which additions or removal would be subject to the condemnation you think this applies to. Isn't this an addition to the book of this prohecy?

I'm just wondering how you make the distinction.

peepnklown said:

Provide the text where Jesus defines Christianity.[/color]

Classic; switching the burden of proof. This is the 3rd time you have used fallacious tactics to dodge my questions. If you cannot answer them then please be honest enough to say so. If you cannot support your assertions then YES they are only opinions, they have no validity.

Funny you should mention this because the Torah/Tanakh warns the same thing about the Greek Scriptures (NT).

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Please give us a reference in the Torah/Tanakh where it specifically warns the reader about the Greek Scriptures.

Eldy said:

Wow! this is a change. Not too long ago I was the fundy ev. and calling out anyone who was not.

The thing is that I also flung that idea that we only disagree on "non essentials" like it was candy on halloween. But I must ask, what is non-essential about any of the teachings of God?

Seems that we cannot even agree within the churches which of these items are the non-essentials.

Some say baptism is mandatory. Some say it is sprinkled and other demand it be by immersion.

Some say communion is mandatory but most cannot agree wether it be done with wine or grape juice or water.

And these are just a couple of problems.

No, it is not just non-essentials. It is division. The only thing that the evangelical church, of which I happen to be part, seems to agree on is that everyone who is not part is going to hell. That my friend I cannot be part of.

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The Church of Christ believes in baptism as being essential for salvation. That's not a large cross section that should represent evangelicals as a whole.

Catholics are big on communion but I'm not so sure they even want to lumped into the category of evangelicals or that they even should be.

A few denominations out of many do not really speak for all of what we call evangelical Christianity. The other problem is that the term "Evangelical Christianity" seems to be redefined often. It's become a stereotypical term but what does it mean anymore?

MarsHill said:

You've already said that you do not wish to discuss anything with a person like me who uses dishonest tactics (your opinion).

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I did not say that, I said that if you are going to use a dishonest tactic to dodge the discussion then I didn’t want to discuss it. I have asked you several times to support your assertions; this will be the final time.

MarsHill said:

Please give us a reference in the Torah/Tanakh where it specifically warns the reader about the Greek Scriptures.

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Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. The Torah/Tanakh warns not to add or subtract from God’s word. Now, this is probably best in another thread but I will gladly type out why the Greek Scriptures violate this commandment if needed.

peepnklown said:

I did not say that, I said that if you are going to use a dishonest tactic to dodge the discussion then I didn’t want to discuss it. I have asked you several times to support your assertions; this will be the final time. [/color]

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. The Torah/Tanakh warns not to add or subtract from God’s word. Now, this is probably best in another thread but I will gladly type out why the Greek Scriptures violate this commandment if needed.

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Wouldn't that mean that every book in the Tanakh after the Pentateuch violates this command? It seems to be given in the context of not adding to the Law. Also, this entire matter is purely a matter of one's interpretation of the entire Canon of Scripture. The Messianic Jews seem to interpret it differently as they do the Suffering Servant of Isaiah. I see you have several posts on that subject as well.

When it comes to adding or subtracting from "God's Word" if there is no God then there cannot be a God given command not to add or subtract from His word. If we are calling this a Divine command then there must be a Divine Command giver. That would be God.