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Very well said. A hearty amen.bleechers said:But the church cannot make decisions where a truth has already been established. In Galatians 1, Paul states that even if HE or and ANGEL FROM HEAVEN preach any other gospel than that which was ALREADY PREACHED, he/they was/were to be anathema... that goes for councils as well.
Did Paul speak on the OT canon in his gospel message?bleechers said:...
But the church cannot make decisions where a truth has already been established. In Galatians 1, Paul states that even if HE or and ANGEL FROM HEAVEN preach any other gospel than that which was ALREADY PREACHED, he/they was/were to be anathema... that goes for councils as well.
Sure there are: verse numbers!lionroar0 said:Hey there's no lucky numbers in that fortune cookie!!!!! (jk).lol
KennySe asked for a reference to a Bible that did not have them, pre reformation. I gave him one.Oblio said:The problem with that (even if substantiated) is that until it is used and affirmed by the Church it is simply a work in process. One person or local group does not determine the Biblical canon. This was precisely what led to the canonization in the first place, widely separate collections of 'inspired' writings, many of them heretical. Only a council led by the Holy Spirit could determine that which was truly Holy Scripture.
Show us the first Bible that rejected them.
If you mean, not included, then that would be the Puritan version.
Do you mean the Quakers? The Shakers believed their leader was the 2nd-coming. The Quakers, weren't the Quakers from the Mennonites? I beleive the Mennonites believe in free will and the Puritans were Calvinists.The guys on the Oatmeal box ??
The ones that 'evolved' into Shakers ??
[SIZE=+1]Here we close our commentaries on the historical books of the Old Testament. For the rest (that is, Judith, Tobit, and the books of Maccabees) are counted by St. Jerome out of the canonical books, and are placed among the Apocrypha, along with Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus, as is plain from the Prologus Galeatus. Nor be thou disturbed, like a raw scholar, if thou shouldest find anywhere, either in the sacred councils or the sacred doctors, these books reckoned canonical. For the words as well as of councils as of doctors are to be reduced to the correction of Jerome. Now, according to his judgment, in the epistle to the bishops Chromatius and Heliodorus, these books (and any other like books in the canon of the bible) are not canonical, that is, not in the nature of a rule for confirming matters of faith. Yet, they may be called canonical, that is, in the nature of a rule for the edification of the faithful, as being received and authorised in the canon of the bible for that purpose. By the help of this distinction thou mayest see thy way clear through that which Augustine says, and what is written in the provincial council of Carthage [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](Commentary on all the Authentic Historical Books of the Old Testament. Taken from his comments on the final chapter of Esther. Cited by William Whitaker, A Disputation on Holy Scripture (Cambridge: University Press, 1849), p. 48).[/SIZE]
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