Are EGW compilations dangerous?

AndrewK788 · Nov 15, 2007

Maybe dangerous is too strong a word...but anyway...

So before I ask the question, I want to begin with the statement that I have nothing against Ellen G White, simply people who takes things entirely out of context. With that said, what are your views on compilations of White's writings?

I'll admit I'm not the most well-read person on her writings but I've seen enough to know that some of her writings that Adventists use to defend and uphold certain beliefs are taken out of the context in which they were written. So because of this I've steered clear of compilations, not because of an avoidance of EGW but simply because I know words taken out of context can be manipulated to say whatever the publisher wants. I mean, I'm sure I could pick and choose verses from the Bible that would proclaim whatever I wanted to say.

My point is I read EGW's writings but I do not read the compilations of her writings that were published after her death. Does anyone feel the same or disagree?

StormyOne · Nov 15, 2007

agreed.... compilations are horrid.....

mva1985 · Nov 15, 2007

AndrewK788 said:
Maybe dangerous is too strong a word...but anyway...

So before I ask the question, I want to begin with the statement that I have nothing against Ellen G White, simply people who takes things entirely out of context. With that said, what are your views on compilations of White's writings?

I'll admit I'm not the most well-read person on her writings but I've seen enough to know that some of her writings that Adventists use to defend and uphold certain beliefs are taken out of the context in which they were written. So because of this I've steered clear of compilations, not because of an avoidance of EGW but simply because I know words taken out of context can be manipulated to say whatever the publisher wants. I mean, I'm sure I could pick and choose verses from the Bible that would proclaim whatever I wanted to say.

My point is I read EGW's writings but I do not read the compilations of her writings that were published after her death. Does anyone feel the same or disagree?

Andrew,

This is a great question. I don't have a problem with the compilations or her writings in general.

The compilations just take quotes on a certain subject and place them in one location for convenience. I believe that the editors are men and women of integrity and would also not want to take something out of context.

AndrewK788 · Nov 15, 2007

mva1985 said:
Andrew,

This is a great question. I don't have a problem with the compilations or her writings in general.

The compilations just take quotes on a certain subject and place them in one location for convenience. I believe that the editors are men and women of integrity and would also not want to take something out of context.

Yes, I agree. I'm sorry if I made it sound as though they would do it deliberately. But as you said they are only men and women prone to making mistakes. I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong, but I feel more comfortable staying away from the compilations. But everyone's entitled to his or her own opinion.

StormyOne · Nov 15, 2007

mva1985 said:
Andrew,

This is a great question. I don't have a problem with the compilations or her writings in general.

The compilations just take quotes on a certain subject and place them in one location for convenience. I believe that the editors are men and women of integrity and would also not want to take something out of context.

sheesh... and that is the problem...they take what she originally said out of its context..... you are more trusting than I... or just naive....

mva1985 · Nov 15, 2007

AndrewK788 said:
Yes, I agree. I'm sorry if I made it sound as though they would do it deliberately. But as you said they are only men and women prone to making mistakes. I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong, but I feel more comfortable staying away from the compilations. But everyone's entitled to his or her own opinion.

And I have no problems if someone does not want to read compilations. No biggie.

I personally don't go out and buy up every compilation, because I don't feel it is necessary.

AndrewK788 · Nov 15, 2007

StormyOne said:
sheesh... and that is the problem...they take what she originally said out of its context..... you are more trusting than I... or just naive....

I suppose it could be naive but I wouldn't say so as long as you're aware of where the particular passage first appeared in her writings. But that is the problem...who wants to take the time and bother?

NightEternal · Nov 15, 2007

I often hear the 'context' argument used in regards to EGW's writings. This is usually a common tactic that is implemented in a last-ditch desperate effort on the part of the EGW apologists when they are trying to explain an outrageous, embarrassing, indefensible claim.

You know how it works. You come across one of EGW's controversial claims. The apologists come on the run to do damage control and admonish you to TAKE THE STATEMENT IN CONTEXT because, NO, she really wasn't saying we should not have assurance of salvation or that meat-eaters will not be translated.

Okay, fine. So I read the full prior and following pages in an attempt to get some context.

Unfortunately, even after all that, she still comes out claiming the very same thing to my understanding.

Context has done nothing to change the fact that her statement is pretty straight-forward and self-explanitory.
Am I missing something here that everyone else seems to get? Does context somehow turn the lightbulb on and cause the reader to realize that, of course, she wasn't really saying that at all!

Because that has yet to happen to me.

She says masturbation causes a myriad of fatal diseases. There ain't enough context in the world that can save face from that preposterous blunder.

AndrewK788 · Nov 15, 2007

NightEternal said:
I often hear the 'context' argument used in regards to EGW's writings. This is usually a common tactic that is inmplemented in a last-ditch desperate effort on the part of the EGW apologists when they are trying to explain an outrageous, embarrassing, indefensible claim.

You know how it works. You come across one of EGW's controversial claims. The apologists come on the run to do damage control and admonish you to TAKE THE STATEMENT IN CONTEXT because, NO, she really wasn't saying we should not have assurance of salvation or that meat-eaters will not be translated.

Okay, fine. So I read the full prior and following pages in an attempt to get some context.

Unfortunately, even after all that, she still comes out claiming the very same thing to my understanding.

Context has done nothing to change the fact that her statement is pretty straight-forward and self-explanitory.
Am I missing someting here that everyone else seems to get? Does context somehow turn the lightbulb on and cause the reader to realize that, of course, she wasn't really saying that at all!

Because that has yet to happen to me.

She says masturbation causes a myriad of fatal diseases. There ain't enough context in the world that can save face from that preposterous blunder.

Well as I said I'm not well-read in enough of her writings to know too much. I suppose when I say "context" I also mean that we should be aware of the time it was written and how the implications vary now than they did 100 years ago.

For example, the whole idea that playing pool is bad and what not. Well, pool in itself is fine, I believe. It's a game of skill you can play with family, friends, so who cares? Well at that time, home pool tables were an uncommon luxury and the only place to find them were in saloons and taverns. So it wasn't so much that the pool table itself was evil but the context of what surrounded the game at that time period which clearly has no grounds in the modern day.

That's my opinion at least.

AndrewK788 · Nov 15, 2007

And another one I forgot to mention. She has written letters to individuals as well. Letters that have been published after her death. In some cases she may have said some pretty powerful statements on certain issues regarding what these people should do given their the circumstances and their current situation. But then these letters are later published, not in the context that they were intended for a certain individual under a certain circumstance, but simply Ellen White wrote it so here it is. Read it and obey .

I think she was a straight-forward writer as NE has said, but I also think that certain writings of hers have been taken out of the context of their time and circumstances.

RC_NewProtestants · Nov 15, 2007

The problem with compilations is that they don't contain the surrounding statements which can be helpful in understanding what circumstance she was addressing. In the main the compilations do not take her out of context aside from the morning watch versions but that is a problem with those kinds of so called devotional books, as they will mess up the context of Bible verses when they want to use a verse to fit their particular theme for the day.

However since the context of the original is lost because only one paragraph is used there is a tendency to place the quotes into a specific predetermined area or subject. Therefore it makes it appear that she may be saying something more strongly or certainly then she did in the original article. You are also only getting the message that some compiler wants you to get which means that something she may have said elsewhere will not be used because it does not fit with what the compiler's purpose was even though it could easily fit into the subject area of the quote a compiler did use. I think that is really the biggest problems with compilations. Compiler bias.

StormyOne · Nov 15, 2007

AndrewK788 said:
I suppose it could be naive but I wouldn't say so as long as you're aware of where the particular passage first appeared in her writings. But that is the problem...who wants to take the time and bother?

you won't necessarily know... and let's not even get into the revisions of her writings.... not done by her...

JonMiller · Nov 15, 2007

I have Steps to Christ, and the 5 books (Desire of Ages et al.). I don't really intend to get more.

JM

AndrewK788 · Nov 15, 2007

mjona3 said:
I have Steps to Christ, and the 5 books (Desire of Ages et al.). I don't really intend to get more.

JM

And that's a wonderful collection. Honestly, unless you just fall in love with her writing, I wouldn't necessarily suggest getting any more than that.

Bourbaki · Nov 15, 2007

AndrewK788 said:
I do not read the compilations of her writings that were published after her death. Does anyone feel the same or disagree?

Ellen White encouraged work on important compilations. Consider the test for important content in the following Spirit of prophecy directive: Ellen White wrote, “Gather up the rays of light that have been slighted and rejected. Gather them up with meekness, with trembling, and with fear.” Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 5, pp. 93-94.

There is no doubt in my mind that The Seven Faces of Seventh-day Adventism is an excellent Ellen G. White compilation that fits that profile. Another important compilation (part Spirit of prophecy, part demonic doctrine, and part spiritualistic philosophy) is The Spiritualistic Philosophy of A. Graham Maxwell. Without that compilation of relevant quotes, how would the naive and unsuspecting be alerted to the spiritualism that is now biting and hissing at faithful Adventists in the Seventh-day Adventist church?

AndrewK788 · Nov 15, 2007

Bourbaki said:
Ellen White encouraged work on important compilations. Consider the test for important content in the following Spirit of prophecy directive: Ellen White wrote, Gather up the rays of light that have been slighted and rejected. Gather them up with meekness, with trembling, and with fear. Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 5, pp. 93-94.

There is no doubt in my mind that The Seven Faces of Seventh-day Adventism is an excellent Ellen G. White compilation that fits that profile. Another important compilation (part Spirit of prophecy, part demonic doctrine, and part spiritualistic philosophy) is The Spiritualistic Philosophy of A. Graham Maxwell. Without that compilation of relevant quotes, how would the naive and unsuspecting be alerted to the spiritualism that is now biting and hissing at faithful Adventists in the Seventh-day Adventist church?

Well, I don't necessarily argue that there aren't compilations that may be good and useful. I simply am wary of them. And as for the spiritualism: I haven't actually read her writings on the topic but it certainly wouldn't take Ellen White to see the spiritualism in this country for anyone who's paying attention. Spiritualism is everywhere in today's culture. Maybe it's just more obvious to me since I live in Asheville, NC, one of the worst spots in the nation for New Age people .

Anyway, I'm not trying to start an argument, I simply think we need to exercise caution when using compilations that have been arranged by those other than the original author.

StormyOne · Nov 16, 2007

Bourbaki said:
Ellen White encouraged work on important compilations. Consider the test for important content in the following Spirit of prophecy directive: Ellen White wrote, Gather up the rays of light that have been slighted and rejected. Gather them up with meekness, with trembling, and with fear. Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 5, pp. 93-94.

There is no doubt in my mind that The Seven Faces of Seventh-day Adventism is an excellent Ellen G. White compilation that fits that profile. Another important compilation (part Spirit of prophecy, part demonic doctrine, and part spiritualistic philosophy) is The Spiritualistic Philosophy of A. Graham Maxwell. Without that compilation of relevant quotes, how would the naive and unsuspecting be alerted to the spiritualism that is now biting and hissing at faithful Adventists in the Seventh-day Adventist church?

no and no... a warped view no doubt......

digdeep · Nov 16, 2007

mjona3 said:
I have Steps to Christ, and the 5 books (Desire of Ages et al.). I don't really intend to get more.

JM

You got to get Mount of Blessings. It's a very good book and one of my favorites.

DD

AndrewK788 · Nov 16, 2007

digdeep said:
You got to get Mount of Blessings. It's a very good book and one of my favorites.

DD

Yeah, that one's good too. I forgot to mention it. Welcome to the forum digdeep. I've only been here a couple of days myself.

RC_NewProtestants · Nov 16, 2007

Bourbaki said:
Ellen White encouraged work on important compilations. Consider the test for important content in the following Spirit of prophecy directive: Ellen White wrote, “Gather up the rays of light that have been slighted and rejected. Gather them up with meekness, with trembling, and with fear.” Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 5, pp. 93-94.

This is the kind of bias that makes compilations so dangerous. People who take a quote in this case just a line and insert it into a meaning not present in the original. Official compilations are not as bad as the unbalanced folks like Eugene above. But it brings out an important point in that not all compilations are official SDA publications the fringe traditional groups will also publish (or post on the internet) compilations and these are in fact often contextually wrong as well as biased by compilers views. Thanks for pointing that out Eugene.

EGW's actual quote from the chapter entitled Chap.7 - Workers in our College

My heart aches day after day and night after night for our churches. Many are progressing, but in the back track. "The path of the just . . . shineth more and more unto the perfect day." Their march is onward and upward. They progress from strength to strength, from grace to grace, and from glory to glory. This is the privilege of all our churches. But, oh, how different has it been with them! They need divine illumination. They must face square about. I know what I say. Unless they shall become Christians indeed, they will go from weakness to weakness, divisions will increase, and many souls will be led to perdition. {5T 93.2}

All I can say to you is: Take up the light which God has given you and follow it at any cost to yourselves. This is your
94
only safety. You have a work to do to come into harmony, and may the Lord help you to do it even if self is crucified. Gather up the rays of light that have been slighted and rejected. Gather them up with meekness, with trembling, and with fear. The sin of ancient Israel was in disregarding the expressed will of God and following their own way according to the leadings of unsanctified hearts. Modern Israel are fast following in their footsteps, and the displeasure of the Lord is as surely resting upon them. {5T 93.3}

It is never difficult to do what we love to do, but to take a course directly against our inclinations is lifting a cross. Christ prayed that His disciples might be one as He was one with the Father. This unity is the credentials of Christ to the world that God sent Him. When self-will is renounced in reference to matters there will be a union of believers with Christ. This all should pray for and work for determinedly, thus answering as far as possible the prayer of Christ for unity in His church.
[end of chapter]

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