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Are discussions on faith and science two different catagories?

Justatruthseeker

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Oh I understand I have "human ancestors" beyond my ability to trace my immediate family tree. But then I am not trying to link my ancestors to another species. You are, the onus of proof is on you, not me. Just as if I claimed my ancestor was Alexander the Great, the onus to prove this would be on me. My pointing to "missing common ancestors" and claiming they prove the link, would not be scientifically adequate.
 
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pitabread

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Oh I understand I have "human ancestors" beyond my ability to trace my immediate family tree.

But your argument is that if one cannot explicitly identify an ancestor therefore it doesn't exist.

It seems you don't like the consequence of your own argument. :/

But then I am not trying to link my ancestors to another species. You are, the onus of proof is on you, not me.

Sure and there is plenty of evidence for that. But to suggest that if we can't explicitly identify the specific ancestor between chimps and humans therefore that ancestor is imaginary is just dumb. By that logic your own family tree doesn't exist beyond your ability to trace it.

Remember this is *your* argument and the consequences thereof.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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But your argument is that if one cannot explicitly identify an ancestor therefore it doesn't exist.

It seems you don't like the consequence of your own argument. :/

Again, It is not me that is claiming my ancestors were non-human, you are... I agree all of my ancestors were human, as far back as you care to go.

It's when you get to that split is when you put in imaginary links....
 
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pitabread

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Again, It is not me that is claiming my ancestors were non-human, you are... I agree all of my ancestors were human, as far back as you care to go.

It's when you get to that split is when you put in imaginary links....

Just like you have put imaginary links into your own family tree. Funny, that.

Although I suspect the other part you probably aren't understanding is that the generation-to-generation process doesn't change. Doesn't matter whether you go back 100 years, 1000 years, or one million years. The process of generation-to-generation reproduction/evolution remains the same.

If you accept that process in your own family tree and accept that you have ancestry beyond your ability to identify specific ancestors then there's no difference winding back the clock further.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Just like you have put imaginary links into your own family tree. Funny, that.

I haven't put any in. I fully concur all my ancestors, even if unknown, are human.....
 
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Kaon

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Science and faith are two sides of the same coin. The Most High never wanted blind faith; that is a myth and mysticism of the degree of devotion He requires of His people.

However, academia and faith are categorically disconnected in the same way Islam and Taoism, or Christianity and witchcraft would be. Academics, and academia are an institution that uses biology, chemistry, physics and the general scientific method (we all use it) as a substitution for a faith system.

Academia and religious institutions ha e the very similar structures because they essentially serve the same purpose with respect to humans.
 
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pitabread

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I haven't put any in. I fully concur all my ancestors, even if unknown, are human.....

Your own argument is than an unknown ancestor = imaginary. I'm not surprised you aren't following the consequence of your own logic.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Ahhh, but most are unable to distinguish between science and academia. Since we believe God penned both the Bible and the Works, if they seem to disagree then our interpretation of one or the other must be flawed.
 
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Brightmoon

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Science is a process that figures out how natural phenomena works . That’s not the opposite of religion. They’re completely different as religion uses none of the tools of science. Science doesn’t have dogmas,for example, as we’re very aware of the fact that we’re still learning about nature and how it functions. Ive long since figured out that creationists never understand that science doesn’t set out to disprove religious beliefs . The fact that some religious beliefs are disproved by the processes of science is just a side effect of understanding natural phenomena
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Your own argument is than an unknown ancestor = imaginary. I'm not surprised you aren't following the consequence of your own logic.

No, my argument is you claim we descended from non-human ancestors. Your only link is with imaginary ancestors. Were you claiming that the oldest ancestor of humans was human, just varied in shape and looks, such would be acceptable, being the great variation we see in the dog species and every other species.... Such an assumption would match observational data and the fossil record....

Is this what you are proposing?
 
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Brightmoon

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.
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Denial is a river in Egypt . We’re so closely related to chimps that some primatologists consider us to be the third chimp species and want to move chimps into genus Homo with us . They’re currently investigating that and have already officially retired the old family name Pongidae for the other great apes ( chimps gorillas orangutans bonobos) . The great apes are now hominids like us in family Hominidae
 
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Brightmoon

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.
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I don’t see why you make a big deal about dogs when the amount of variation is more than what you see between horse and zebras . Yet horses and zebras are different species . Superficial appearance doesn’t determine whether or not something is related . You would never mistake any canids for a reptile if you just found bones. But you would see that the bones show a pattern that all land vertebrates share that’s impossible to come about by chance. Even Linnaeus figured out common descent even though he wasn’t allowed to say it or print it due to religion being more intrusive into people’s lives in the 1700s
 
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pitabread

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Your only link is with imaginary ancestors.

Just like your own family tree is imaginary. You just keep doubling down on your own goofy argument and it just gets funnier as it goes.

Were you claiming that the oldest ancestor of humans was human.

Of course the oldest ancestor of humans would be humans. But that's based on drawing an arbitrary line between "human" and "non-human".

The reality is that on lineal basis the actual dividing line would be blurred. Just like we see in modern biology with examples like ring species, among other things.

This is where I think the biggest stumbling block is understanding that the generation-to-generation process is the same then as now, conceptualizing the process (of evolution) as being recursive, and that species barriers in biology are somewhat fuzzy in reality.
 
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Jimmy D

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Why just look at all those imaginary lines drawn to imaginary "common ancestors"

They aren’t imaginary lines, I can see them, you can see them, can anyone else see them?

Maybe you don’t know what ‘imaginary’ means?



A dictionary might help.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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In your false delusional determination of species they are.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_species_concept

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebroid
 
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Justatruthseeker

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They aren’t imaginary lines, I can see them, you can see them, can anyone else see them?

Maybe you don’t know what ‘imaginary’ means?



A dictionary might help.
Maybe YOU don't, since every common ancestor at the species split is imaginary and you think that means real.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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See above. Why do you think they were different, because they looked a little different like say a wolf and a poodle?
 
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Kaon

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Ahhh, but most are unable to distinguish between science and academia. Since we believe God penned both the Bible and the Works, if they seem to disagree then our interpretation of one or the other must be flawed.

That is because faiths are competing. Academic faith has a facet of ego that tends to draw more toward it - even if they have a spiritual faith. Usually, this puts people in that position you alluded to, where one must second guess one (or even all) of their paradigms.

If people knew the Truth, then academics would be tertiary in our lives, and science would have the same communion with faith as it always has.

Cults are not scientific, for example. But, most every religion has a scientific aspect to it. This disconnect in the scientific (natural) and spiritual is what usually cripples faith. The Most High promised us He would put His law on our hearts. He can also shape us to make the wise look foolish if we have that connection.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Oh don't I know. Some of those with the strongest faith on here claim to have no faith at all but are merely practicing science. Not realizing they have simply inserted the "word" science into their doctrine of faith to protect their fragile ego's.

That's why you notice in almost every post they find it necessary to participate in ad-hominem attacks of one sort or another. An attempt to salvage their ego and inflate themselves above others.... They equate this with meaning they have won the argument, when it reality it shows they lost it and need to resort to such to salvage that damaged ego.
 
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