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ANATHEMA!! giving to ones country? That's democratic heresy!!brewmama said:How so?? You certainly assume much without offering any kind of evidence or reasoning. On the other hand, JFK's policies would be anathema to today's Democrats. (Tax cuts, military actions, without UN approval no less, inspiring people to give to their country rather than see what it will give them.)
SorrySpawn said:15 pages of ACTUAL DATA: http://www.epionline.org/studies/macpherson_06-2004.pdf
Marriage has always been the root of civil order - it was so in rome - and has been viewed as religious institution since the beginning of the church.[/qoute]
Then why wasn't it always a sacrament? Why did Calvin say that while it was good, "so also are agriculture, architecture, shoemaking, hair-cutting legitimate ordinances of God, but they are not sacraments"
And what about before Rome? You realize rome is very recent historically right? Civilization (agriculture) has existed for nearly 11,000 years.
Spawn said:This view is hypocritical. You already, to some extenct, have bought into moral relativism and progressivism. You condone women voting and getting an education and working, and yet you support traditional family values.
You assume MUCH.
huh? Don't link education and suffrage. Women have always had the right to an education in the traditional family.Letting women get educated and participate in government, when their traditional place was in the home, was the first step in leaving behind traditional family values.
Suffrage on the other hand - Chesterton had the right of.
It was NOT about women being independent from men - it was about women sullying themselves. What you fail to realize is that prior to the Victorian age, women were seen as lower and baser than men - a woman was a temptress and a seductress. But the Victorians changed that. They elevated women to a revered status. They was women as the paragons of virtue and right - above the squabble and dirtiness of politics.
NOW - having answered your statements - I reject your premise.
Vylo said:Marriage has always been a sacrament of the church. YES calvin denied it sacramental status - but the 5 ancient rites of the church have always recognized marriage as a sacrament, as do the Anglican and Lutheran churches. Calvin does not even speak for a large percentage of the current church let alone the historic church. So - you're point is easily refuted by history.Marriage has always been the root of civil order - it was so in rome - and has been viewed as religious institution since the beginning of the church.[/qoute]
Then why wasn't it always a sacrament? Why did Calvin say that while it was good, "so also are agriculture, architecture, shoemaking, hair-cutting legitimate ordinances of God, but they are not sacraments"
can you point to an example in western civilization where marriage was not a part of the civil order? I point to rome since roman law is one of the cornerstones of western civilization. If you can point to another example in western civ - please post it.And what about before Rome? You realize rome is very recent historically right? Civilization (agriculture) has existed for nearly 11,000 years.
can you point to an example in western civilization where marriage was not a part of the civil order?
Vylo said:[/color]
Marriage does not equal the traditional family. Many of the ways you define traditional families seems erronous.
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