Arabs prfer Israeli rule??

Carey · Nov 8, 2007

[FONT='Trebuchet MS',Verdana,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT='Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Jerusalem Arabs seek Israeli citizenship[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Jerusalem's mosaic of ethnicity (Arab areas in brown, Beit Safafa in the southwest).[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Fearing Palestinian takeover, Jerusalem Arabs seek Israeli citizenship[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]In recent months, talk of a future division of Jerusalem has prompted a sharp increase in nationalization requests by Arab residents seeking to escape the prospect of life under the Palestinian Authority,[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Of the quarter million Arabs currently residing in Jerusalem, only about 5% have sought to obtain Israeli citizenship in the past 40 years, an average of about 300 new citizens a year.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]But in the past four months, according to Ynet, the Interior Ministry has registered an unprecedented 3,000 applications -- 25% of the 40 year total -- mostly from residents of Arab neighborhoods unlikely to remain under Israeli sovereignty according to the statements of member of the Olmert government.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]The 240,000 non-naturalized Arabs in the city hold the status of permanent residents. As such, they were also eligible to participate in the elections held by the Palestinian Authority.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Most Palestinians opted to remain permanent residents and enjoy the many advantages of Israeli sovereignty - full welfare benefits, municipal voting rights and unrestricted movement. The average Palestinian family in East Jerusalem get a $770 welfare check, courtesy of Israeli taxpayers[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]One wannabe Israeli is 33-year-old Samar Qassam, who moved out of the Old City before landing in the suburb of Beit Safafa on the southern fringes of Jerusalem. Qassam said that he was motivated to apply for Israeli citizenship by the desire to find a better future for his family.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]"I was born in Jerusalem, this is where I grew up and this is where I make my living. My entire life is here. My wife comes from the West Bank, so I do fear she may be deported and therefore filed a naturalization request for her as well. I want to keep living here with my wife and child without having to worry about our future. That's why I want an Israeli citizenship," Qassam said.[/FONT][/FONT]

[/FONT][/FONT]

Carey · Nov 9, 2007

So should Israel give up any control to the Palestinians?? I think not.

Micah68 · Nov 9, 2007

Carey said:
So should Israel give up any control to the Palestinians?? I think not.

Carey, Why do you feel the Palestinians are sub-human? Don't they deserve the same rights as any other human being?

Carey · Nov 9, 2007

Micah68 said:
Carey, Why do you feel the Palestinians are sub-human? Don't they deserve the same rights as any other human being?

Sub Human??

I dont think the United States should give up control of any part of the existing USA to the Chrokee Nation either. Does that say they are sub human??

Candide · Nov 9, 2007

I dont think the United States should give up control of any part of the existing USA to the Chrokee Nation either

Why not?

We took the nation from them. It was theirs to begin with. I don't see any plausible moral reason for us not giving it back. Same thing in Isareal, though not that clear cut. Israel shouldn't even exist as a secular nation state.

Micah68 · Nov 9, 2007

Carey said:
Sub Human??

I dont think the United States should give up control of any part of the existing USA to the Chrokee Nation either. Does that say they are sub human??

So you advocate genocide? Ethnic Cleansing? Colonization?

Ethnic Cleansing and Israels Racist Discourse

The term ethnic cleansing refers to various policies of forcibly removing people of another ethnic group. At one end of the spectrum, it is virtually indistinguishable from forced emigration and population transfer, while at the other it merges with deportation and genocide.

Any act of collective punishment whether ethnic cleansing or genocide or any other is often preceded and or adjoined by a racist discourse that dehumanizes the victim and justifies the crime on baseless grounds, a concoction of lies and fibs that may appeal to national or religious psyches, but fails the test of law, morality or basic human norms and expectations.
Without such discourse, which depicted the original inhabitants of Palestine as cancerous, subhuman and a nuisance in the face of civilization and progress as defined by the founders of the Zionist movement it would not have been possible to carry out a systematic campaign of murder and ethnic cleansing in 1947-48, which saw the killing of an estimated 13,000 Palestinians, the forcible eviction of 850,000 and the depopulation and subsequent destruction of nearly 500 villages and localities. Without such a racist discourse it would have been difficult, to say the least, to carry out scores of preempted massacres, including Deir Yassin, Tantoura, Abbasiyya, Beit Daras, Bir Al-Saba, Haifa and so forth.
Were it not for a decided campaign of institutionalized racism that occurred on such a large scale and which is maintained until today, it would have been impossible and implausible to gun down scores of innocent people after lining them up against the crumbling wall of the old Tantura mosque in May of 1948, or to bulldoze the home of a crippled man in Jenin in April 2002 without giving his mother the chance to evacuate him. Or to describe as a great success the killing of 14 civilians, including children when a one-ton Israeli bomb slammed into their apartment building in the Zeitun neighborhood in Gaza in July 2002. Or the wanton murder of 19 people, most of them women and children of the same extended family in Beit Hanoun earlier this November. But according to Israeli officials, every other method has been tried, and failed. With murderous, bloodthirsty terrorism that wants to wipe you off the map, you have to respond accordingly: Wipe it out, as Ben Caspit commented following the brutal massacre of Beit Hanoun.

Carey · Nov 10, 2007

Micah68 said:
So you advocate genocide? Ethnic Cleansing? Colonization?

Ethnic Cleansing and Israels Racist Discourse

What about the ethnic cleansing of the Israelites that removed them from their land of Cannan and was temporarily renmaed Palestine for almost 2000 years???

Carey · Nov 10, 2007

Candide said:
I dont think the United States should give up control of any part of the existing USA to the Chrokee Nation either

Why not?

We took the nation from them. It was theirs to begin with. I don't see any plausible moral reason for us not giving it back. Same thing in Isareal, though not that clear cut. Israel shouldn't even exist as a secular nation state.

Go to any Native American Nation look at the condition of things ther even though they lots of money coming into their Reservation economy through Casinos.

They manage their own Reservation lands.

Then Look at Las Vegas or any River Boat Casino town and compare .Native Americans do no manage them.

Look at Areas manged by the Pakestinians or for that matter Nations near Israel Managed by Arabs and compare to Israel.

Candide · Nov 10, 2007

What does that have to do with anything at all? You didn't address any of my points.

teishpriest · Nov 10, 2007

Honestly, I think a good point to be made is that govenment-sponsered welfare is NOT a good thing! In ANY nation. I certainly don't agree with government welfare programs here. Taking care of the poor is the job of the Church.

Candide · Nov 10, 2007

But the Church isn't doing it.

Carey · Nov 10, 2007

teishpriest said:
Honestly, I think a good point to be made is that govenment-sponsered welfare is NOT a good thing! In ANY nation. I certainly don't agree with government welfare programs here. Taking care of the poor is the job of the Church.

Agreed

Carey · Nov 10, 2007

Candide said:
What does that have to do with anything at all? You didn't address any of my points.

I thought I did .
What did you not understand??

Originally Posted by Candide

I dont think the United States should give up control of any part of the existing USA to the Chrokee Nation either

Why not?

We took the nation from them. It was theirs to begin with. I don't see any plausible moral reason for us not giving it back. Same thing in Isareal, though not that clear cut. Israel shouldn't even exist as a secular nation state.

Go to any Native American Nation look at the condition of things ther even though they lots of money coming into their Reservation economy through Casinos.

They manage their own Reservation lands.

( the point is the nation would go down the drain if we gave control to them )

Then Look at Las Vegas or any River Boat Casino town and compare .Native Americans do no manage them.

Look at Areas manged by the Palestinians or for that matter Nations near Israel Managed by Arabs and compare to Israel.

( the point is the same for Israel except Israel just took back their own land )

Candide · Nov 10, 2007

It couldn't be, perhaps, that those people you mention who take such bad care of their nations, have been oppressed and kicked down from the start? It couldn't be, perhaps, that they've had no chance to do well?

And the nation was completely fine and dandy before we took it from them. Isn't that evidence enough?

And oh yeah, Israel is in wonderful shape right now. You're totally right about that.

Carey · Nov 10, 2007

Candide said:
It couldn't be, perhaps, that those people you mention who take such bad care of their nations, have been oppressed and kicked down from the start? It couldn't be, perhaps, that they've had no chance to do well?

And the nation was completely fine and dandy before we took it from them. Isn't that evidence enough?

And oh yeah, Israel is in wonderful shape right now. You're totally right about that.

Indians were at war between each other for along long time before we came and stopped the infighting and created prosperity and cultivated the land.

The same goes for Israel and the Palestinians except the Palestinians still infight but Israel has created prosperity in a land that was basically desolate.

Mark Twain, who visited Palestine in 1867, described it as:
...[a] desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds-a silent mournful expanse....A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action....We never saw a human being on the whole route....There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of the worthless soil, had almost deserted the country.

Candide · Nov 10, 2007

Indians were at war between each other for along long time before we came and stopped the infighting and created prosperity and cultivated the land.

And what we have now in the USA is much better? We've gone through one civil war already, and we've never stopped fighting other nations. Seems to be about the same, to me.

The same goes for Israel and the Palestinians except the Palestinians still infight but Israel has created prosperity in a land that was basically desolate.

How is Israel prosperous right now? And the only reason that the Palestinian sections aren't as prosperous, is that Israel won't allow them to trade with any other surrounding city. Roads are blocked off by the military or blown up. Nobody would be prosperous under those conditions.

Carey · Nov 10, 2007

Candide said:
Indians were at war between each other for along long time before we came and stopped the infighting and created prosperity and cultivated the land.

And what we have now in the USA is much better? We've gone through one civil war already, and we've never stopped fighting other nations. Seems to be about the same, to me.

What is different now is there is always a job if you are willing to work and you do not have to worry about another tribe coming in and Killing off your whole family
in you own land now.

The same goes for Israel and the Palestinians except the Palestinians still infight but Israel has created prosperity in a land that was basically desolate.

How is Israel prosperous right now? And the only reason that the Palestinian sections aren't as prosperous, is that Israel won't allow them to trade with any other surrounding city. Roads are blocked off by the military or blown up. Nobody would be prosperous under those conditions.

This was the land before it again became Israel.

Mark Twain, who visited Palestine in 1867, described it as:
...[a] desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds-a silent mournful expanse....A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action....We never saw a human being on the whole route....There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of the worthless soil, had almost deserted the country.

When Mark Twain visited Israel in 1867 he described it as a "desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds-a silent mournful expanse... we hardly saw a tree anywhere."
"Making the desert bloom" has been a core component of the Zionist ethos throughout the decades and visitors to Israel in 2007 witness a landscape much changed over the 140 years since Twain's sojourn. Today, what was once desert is now forest and where barren landscape once marred the horizon, flora and fauna now fill up the landscape thanks to the Jewish National Fund. Globally, however, fertile soil is rapidly turning into desert. Desertification - the degradation of land and the expansion of desert - is a significant global environmental concern.

http://www.spme.net/cgi-bin/articles.cgi?ID=2180

A country of just 6.8 million people best known for its conflict with the Palestinians, Israel has managed to create billions of euros of wealth through new products and services, said Douglas Davis, who with his wife Helen wrote ``Israel in the World: Changing Lives Through Innovation.''

Israeli researchers in recent years have developed instant messaging on the Internet, wireless computing chips for Intel, miniature video camera capsules to examine internal organs, filters and tubes for veins to prevent heart attacks and strokes, security software and new cancer treatments.

http://joi.org/bloglinks/Israel More Than Politics.htm

Micah68 · Nov 10, 2007

Carey said:
Indians were at war between each other for along long time before we came and stopped the infighting and created prosperity and cultivated the land.

The same goes for Israel and the Palestinians except the Palestinians still infight but Israel has created prosperity in a land that was basically desolate.

Mark Twain, who visited Palestine in 1867, described it as:
...[a] desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds-a silent mournful expanse....A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action....We never saw a human being on the whole route....There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of the worthless soil, had almost deserted the country.

Carey there you go again, Mark Twain did not just describe Palestine as a barren desert, he also extended this description to Greece, Lebanon, and Syria. He stated:

"From Athens all through the islands of the Grecian Archipelago, we saw little but forbidden sea-walls and barren hills, sometimes surmounted by three or four graceful columns of some ancient temples, lonely and deserted---a fitting symbol of desolation that has come upon all Greece in these latter ages. We saw no plowed fields, very few villages, no trees or grass or vegetation of any kind, scarcely, and hardly ever an isolated house. Greece is a bleak, unsmiling desert, without agriculture, manufactures, or commerce, apparently." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 203)

Damascus is beautiful from the mountain. It is beautiful even to foreigners accustomed to luxuriant vegetation, and I can easily understand how unspeakably beautiful it must be to eyes that are only used to the God-forsaken barrenness and desolation of Syria. I should think a Syrian would go wild with ecstasy when such a picture bursts upon him for the first time." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 262)

From the above quote, the reader may get the impression that Greece is also empty since he stated:
"We saw no ploughed fields, very few villages, no trees or grass or vegetation of any kind,"
On the other hand, he contradict himself on the exact same page. He stated:

"The nation numbers only eight hundred thousand souls." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 203)

By any standard, it's really surprising how Mark Twain described the St. Sophia Church (which was converted to a mosque by the Turks), one of the the architectural marvels of the old and the new worlds. He described the church as follows:

"I do not think much of the Mosque of St. Sophia. I suppose I lack appreciation. We will let it go at that. It is the rustiest old barn in heathendom. I believe all the interest that attaches to it comes from the fact that it was built for a Christian church and then turned into a mosque, without much alteration, by the Mohammedan conquerors of the land." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 208)

Regarding the Muslim Ottoman Turks, Greeks, and Armenians, Mark Twain made the following racist remarks:

"[In Constantinople,] Mosques are plenty, churches are plenty, graveyards are plenty, but moral and whisky are scarce. The Koran does not permit Mohammedans to drink. Their natural instinct do not permit them to be moral. They say the Sultan has eight hundred wives. This almost amounts to bigamy. It makes our cheeks burn with shame to see such a thing permitted here in Turkey. We do not mind to see such thing in Salt Lake City, however." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 210-211)

"Greek, Turkish, and Armenian morals consist only in attending church regularly on the appointed Sabbath, and in breaking the ten commandments all the balance of the week. It comes natural to them to lie and cheat in the first place, and then they go on and improve on nature until they arrive at perfection." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 212)

"Everybody lies and cheats----everybody who is in business, at any rate. Even foreigners soon have to come down to the custom of the country, and they do not buy and sell long in Constantinople till they lie and cheat like a Greek. I say like a Greek, because Greeks are called the worst transgressors in this line." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 212)

"....I never dislike a Chinaman as I do these Turks and Arabs, and, when Russia is ready to war with them again, I hope England and France will not find it good breeding or good judgment to interfere." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 268)

Mark Twain accurately described the Ottoman tax collection, and its impact on the peasants in Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine. He stated:

"The Syrians are very poor, and yet they are ground down by a system of taxation that would drive any other nation frantic. Last year their taxes were heavy enough, in all conscience----but this year they have been increased by the addition of taxes that were forgiven them in times of famine in former years." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 256-257)

As Mark Twain entered the cities of Nablus and Jaffa, he stated:

"The narrow canyon in which Nablous, or Shechem, is situated, in under high cultivation, and the soil is exceedingly black and fertile. It is well watered, and its affluent vegetation gains effect by contrast with the barren hills that tower on either side." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 322)
"We came finally to the noble grove of orange trees in which the Oriental city of Jaffa lied buried." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 360)

Mark Twain is a renowned American author whose contribution to American literature is immense. On the other hand, what he wrote is filled with dangerous stereotypes, emotions, and in many cases contradictions. It's misleading to quote him, and to make him an authority about the region based on his brief trip. Israelis and Zionists are the best operators in spinning events to their advantage, and quoting Mark Twain out of context is a classic example of this.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/076240180X/thehomeofalle-20

Carey · Nov 10, 2007

Micah68 said:
Carey there you go again, Mark Twain did not just describe Palestine as a barren desert, he also extended this description to Greece, Lebanon, and Syria. He stated:

From the above quote, the reader may get the impression that Greece is also empty since he stated:
"We saw no ploughed fields, very few villages, no trees or grass or vegetation of any kind,"
On the other hand, he contradict himself on the exact same page. He stated:

By any standard, it's really surprising how Mark Twain described the St. Sophia Church (which was converted to a mosque by the Turks), one of the the architectural marvels of the old and the new worlds. He described the church as follows:

Regarding the Muslim Ottoman Turks, Greeks, and Armenians, Mark Twain made the following racist remarks:

Mark Twain accurately described the Ottoman tax collection, and its impact on the peasants in Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine. He stated:

As Mark Twain entered the cities of Nablus and Jaffa, he stated:

Mark Twain is a renowned American author whose contribution to American literature is immense. On the other hand, what he wrote is filled with dangerous stereotypes, emotions, and in many cases contradictions. It's misleading to quote him, and to make him an authority about the region based on his brief trip. Israelis and Zionists are the best operators in spinning events to their advantage, and quoting Mark Twain out of context is a classic example of this.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/076240180X/thehomeofalle-20

We were not talking about lands outside of Palestine so what Mark twain thought of Missouri doesnot matter either.

You can try to distarct from the point all you want.

The fact remains Palestine was crap before 1948 and has progressively became more pproductive and wealthy ever since.

Isaiah 60 could not make it more plain.

Carey · Nov 11, 2007

I guess I have accomplished what God would have me to.

See my siganture

Pm me if you want.

Carey

Arabs prfer Israeli rule??

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