Apostolic Succession

RhetorTheo · Mar 4, 2004

Is "apostolic succession" important to P/R/Es? Are Lutherans in the line of apostolic succession? What about Anglicans and Baptists?

JVAC · Mar 4, 2004

The ELCA is linked to Christ in the Apostolic Succession. We don't set great store by it but we do have that practice, not so with other Lutheran Denominations. The main reason for this is the "Called to Common Mission" which we share with the Episcopalians, who also have that linkage. Other churches don't share in this practice.

BBAS 64 · Mar 4, 2004

RhetorTheo said:
Is "apostolic succession" important to P/R/Es? Are Lutherans in the line of apostolic succession? What about Anglicans and Baptists?

Good Day, RT

If you would please define what you mean by "apostolic succession". Do you have Scripture reference for this idea?

Thanx,

BBAS

Lotar · Mar 4, 2004

It is important to Anglicans. Baptists fo' sho' don't practice it.

Some Lutherans practice it, some don't. None practice it because they think it is necessary, most that do, do it for traditions sake or because they are in communion with Anglicans.

ChoirDir · Mar 4, 2004

Lotar maybe you can explain Apostolic Succession in the Lutheran faith since Martin Luther was a monk not a Bishop.

JVAC · Mar 4, 2004

Actually it is an ELCA practice, that is, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America is the only Lutheran Church who practices it here in North America. Sweeden and Finland do it also, I am not sure about other churches.

According to the "Called to Common Mission" the ELCA was to obtain Apostolic Succession to enter into this agreement. We obtained it by having our Bishops ordained by Sweedish Bishops, who can trace thier lineage to Christ.

Sweeden had thier succession from the RCC. In a political move a king forced all the Clergy to become Lutheran. This included the Bishops that were in Sweeden. So the Bishops continued to pass this on and here we are today.

Lotar · Mar 4, 2004

ChoirDir said:
Lotar maybe you can explain Apostolic Succession in the Lutheran faith since Martin Luther was a monk not a Bishop.

When Sweden converted, they kept their bishops, which is why the Lutheran Church in Sweden and Finland have Bishops.

ChoirDir · Mar 4, 2004

Lotar you're getting slow. JVAC beat you. Thanks to both.

Lotar · Mar 4, 2004

Darn you JVAC

Momzilla · Mar 4, 2004

Methodists do not have apostolic succession. John Wesley flatly rejected it.

countrymousenc · Mar 4, 2004

It should also be noted, however, that John Wesley did not intend to start a separate church, and remained an Anglican priest for the rest of his life.

Polycarp1 · Mar 5, 2004

Apostolic Succession as a doctrine holds, quite simply, that the Apostles were commissioned by Christ to perform the ministry of preaching and sacraments for which they were set apart. John 20:21-23 is the most obvious of several records of this "ordination" by Him in Scripture.

According to this system, the Apostles provided for the Church after their departure to be with Him by establishing a threefold ministry, all of which are recorded in Scripture: the episkopoi, the presbuterioi, and the diakonoi, which today comprise the bishops, priests/elders/presbyters, and the deacons.

Only presbyters and bishops may celebrate the Holy Eucharist, absolve from sins by formally pronouncing God's forgiveness of them, and anoint for healing.

Only bishops may set apart others by ordaining them to these ministries, and in the West only bishops may give the gifts of the Holy Spirit in confirmation.

There appears to have been a time in the early church when all presbyters were ordained as bishops as well, since the two terms are used interchangeably in some passages in Scripture. The Presbyterian and Methodist Churches found their understanding of the ministry on this, and hold that elders/presbyters may ordain others to their rank.

Anglicans believe that a valid ordination within the Apostolic Succession is necessary to the proper and valid celebration of the sacraments (except that laymen can always baptize in case of emergency, something the entire church shares).

The Church of England, the Anglican Churches of Wales, Scotland, and Ireland, and the (Lutheran) Churches of Sweden and Finland preserved the Apostolic Succession at the Reformation.

countrymousenc · Mar 5, 2004

The Moravian Church has historically believed, too, that it preserved Apostolic Succession as well, although there seems recently to be some dispute and some doubt within the ranks about whether it matters. (That's according to some things I've read; if there's a Moravian on board that knows differently, please correct me.)

Polycarp1 · Mar 5, 2004

countrymousenc said:
The Moravian Church has historically believed, too, that it preserved Apostolic Succession as well, although there seems recently to be some dispute and some doubt within the ranks about whether it matters. (That's according to some things I've read; if there's a Moravian on board that knows differently, please correct me.)

True, and I completely forgot about them! :o Thanks for the correction, countrymouse!!

countrymousenc · Mar 5, 2004

Just glad to be of help, Polycarp1!!

Polycarp1 · Mar 5, 2004

countrymousenc said:
Just glad to be of help, Polycarp1!!

I hereby nominate us two to be the TTTT: Tarheel Treasurers of Theological Trivia!!!

countrymousenc · Mar 5, 2004

cool!

Apostolic Succession

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