Apathy

TenthAveN · Dec 12, 2020

Hey everyone,

I was wondering if OCD/Depression/Anxiety resulted in apathy. I’ve just felt no desire to pursue God and a greater desire to live in the world. When I think about submitting to God, I get this cringing feeling in my chest, and every time I think about God or Jesus loving me, I get the cringing feeling. My prayers are forced, and seem more like a compulsion than real prayer. I heard somewhere that you can use God’s name in vain just by praying without any faith. My lack of concern seemingly grows more and more each day. This might be due to me one night to decide to give up because my desire to know God was waning and I decided that I’d just live how I wanted for the rest of my days. The only reason I decided to turn around was because the end is coming quickly, and I don’t want to be lost. Advice and prayer is always welcome.

Mark Quayle · Dec 12, 2020

TenthAveN said:
Hey everyone,

I was wondering if OCD/Depression/Anxiety resulted in apathy. I’ve just felt no desire to pursue God and a greater desire to live in the world. When I think about submitting to God, I get this cringing feeling in my chest, and every time I think about God or Jesus loving me, I get the cringing feeling. My prayers are forced, and seem more like a compulsion than real prayer. I heard somewhere that you can use God’s name in vain just by praying without any faith. My lack of concern seemingly grows more and more each day. This might be due to me one night to decide to give up because my desire to know God was waning and I decided that I’d just live how I wanted for the rest of my days. The only reason I decided to turn around was because the end is coming quickly, and I don’t want to be lost. Advice and prayer is always welcome.

I'm curious about your religious background --in other words, what precepts and concepts about God and life rule your thinking. I can't help but think there was more to you deciding to give up than the fact your desire to know God was waning --there was more to me giving up at one point than that.

Anyway, you aren't the one running your life.

TenthAveN · Dec 12, 2020

Mark Quayle said:
I'm curious about your religious background --in other words, what precepts and concepts about God and life rule your thinking. I can't help but think there was more to you deciding to give up than the fact your desire to know God was waning --there was more to me giving up at one point than that.

Anyway, you aren't the one running your life.

i think I was burnt out

sparow · Dec 12, 2020

TenthAveN said:
Hey everyone,

I was wondering if OCD/Depression/Anxiety resulted in apathy. I’ve just felt no desire to pursue God and a greater desire to live in the world. When I think about submitting to God, I get this cringing feeling in my chest, and every time I think about God or Jesus loving me, I get the cringing feeling. My prayers are forced, and seem more like a compulsion than real prayer. I heard somewhere that you can use God’s name in vain just by praying without any faith. My lack of concern seemingly grows more and more each day. This might be due to me one night to decide to give up because my desire to know God was waning and I decided that I’d just live how I wanted for the rest of my days. The only reason I decided to turn around was because the end is coming quickly, and I don’t want to be lost. Advice and prayer is always welcome.

The thing about mental equilibriums they can suffer from a automatic control failure and a person has to learn to control ones spiritual function (by some degree) manually; this is what makes man different to an animal. A symptom of depression is often avoidance, strangely a treatment is also avoidance; the difference being, in the first case the disease is in control and the second case the person is in control. It is dangerous giving people advice on these matters because the advise may not be appropriate; If you thought you had a mental health problem you should educate yourself in this area; if you reach a point where the problem is a problem then seek outside help. Depression is usually caused by something, like the environment you live in; depression is a symptom of any long term illness; if you are too close to a power transformer which emits electro magnetic radiation; which can also assimilate ELF radiation causing the transformer noise to arrive in pulses or packets which can be harmful over time; you need to find out what the cause so you can take remedial action.

Anxiety, depression and suicide prevention support - Beyond Blue

e-couch Self Help (anu.edu.au)

TenthAveN · Dec 13, 2020

Mark Quayle said:
I'm curious about your religious background --in other words, what precepts and concepts about God and life rule your thinking. I can't help but think there was more to you deciding to give up than the fact your desire to know God was waning --there was more to me giving up at one point than that.

Anyway, you aren't the one running your life.

To elaborate on what I mean by burnt out, I think my bought of mental illnesses was brought on by my failure to feel joy in Christ and my subsequent quest to earn grace which was doomed from the start. I thought doing things for Christ would bring me joy, but when no joy was found, I began to doubt my salvation, and turned to works to try to earn that grace. Obviously that was an utter failure. Perhaps I was in a trial, and I did not succeed.

So I started seeing a therapist in the Winter, and I started actually studying the Bible, beginning with John. For a moment at the end when the disciples met Jesus on the shore, and Peter was forgiven, I found hope and thought that things would turn out okay, but the doubt always crept back in. I tried ERP (which is doing things OCD tells you not to do, which is a slippery slope), yet I still couldn’t let all of my obsessions go, and shortly after, I began growing apathetic and my desire to be saved began to wane to the point that I wondered if God was finished with me. And I guess I thought to myself “If God has decided not to continue to call me, I should just do as I please.”

And that’s what I did, though I continued to read the Word every day and pray, perhaps because I didn’t want to go ‘too far’. Then one day I read in the forums about the Israelis “talking to their Messiah” and that “he’s going to be revealed soon” (and I know for sure that whoever they’re about to reveal is not the real Messiah), which frightened me, so I doubled down on my attempts to earn grace, possibly more so than the last time. So that’s where I’m at right now. Every time I read the Word it’s forced and lifeless, every time I pray, I’m physically exhausted to the point that I need to relax a bit before I do so.

I guess that kind of answers your other question too. Also, I’m not sure what you mean by me not being the one running my life. If you mean God is sovereign over everything, then you would be correct. However, if you’re talking about Hyper Calvinism, I don’t quite agree.

Tolworth John · Dec 13, 2020

TenthAveN said:
think my bought of mental illnesses was brought on by my failure to feel joy in Christ and my subsequent quest to earn grace which was doomed from the start.

TenthAveN said:
but the doubt always crept back in

We are saved through faith in Jesus and ' faith ' is a gift from God eph 2:8+9.

Not every Christian is jumping up and down with joy and cheesy grin pasted to there face.
Far more than is generally known do not know the joy of salvation.

Essentially all Christians have to do is trust Jesus and show there love by how they live.

God knows about your problems and he will not punish you because of your mental illness.

Lastly have a look at this article and discuss it with your therapist and pastor:-

International OCD Foundation | 25 Tips for Succeeding in Your OCD Treatment

Mark Quayle · Dec 13, 2020

TenthAveN said:
To elaborate on what I mean by burnt out, I think my bought of mental illnesses was brought on by my failure to feel joy in Christ and my subsequent quest to earn grace which was doomed from the start. I thought doing things for Christ would bring me joy, but when no joy was found, I began to doubt my salvation, and turned to works to try to earn that grace. Obviously that was an utter failure. Perhaps I was in a trial, and I did not succeed.

So I started seeing a therapist in the Winter, and I started actually studying the Bible, beginning with John. For a moment at the end when the disciples met Jesus on the shore, and Peter was forgiven, I found hope and thought that things would turn out okay, but the doubt always crept back in. I tried ERP (which is doing things OCD tells you not to do, which is a slippery slope), yet I still couldn’t let all of my obsessions go, and shortly after, I began growing apathetic and my desire to be saved began to wane to the point that I wondered if God was finished with me. And I guess I thought to myself “If God has decided not to continue to call me, I should just do as I please.”

And that’s what I did, though I continued to read the Word every day and pray, perhaps because I didn’t want to go ‘too far’. Then one day I read in the forums about the Israelis “talking to their Messiah” and that “he’s going to be revealed soon” (and I know for sure that whoever they’re about to reveal is not the real Messiah), which frightened me, so I doubled down on my attempts to earn grace, possibly more so than the last time. So that’s where I’m at right now. Every time I read the Word it’s forced and lifeless, every time I pray, I’m physically exhausted to the point that I need to relax a bit before I do so.

I guess that kind of answers your other question too. Also, I’m not sure what you mean by me not being the one running my life. If you mean God is sovereign over everything, then you would be correct. However, if you’re talking about Hyper Calvinism, I don’t quite agree.

Thanks for elaborating. I noticed you have left out any references to guilt, although you mention failure. I don't know if that is good or bad that you don't mention it. Guilt played a huge part in my fight with repentance and closeness to God. But I am not you, and don't mean this as a criticism, nor as more than a something I noticed.

What I mean by God running your life: Hyper-Calvinists might say the same thing, but to me it's not Hyper-Calvinist; it's just simple Biblical fact that where you are right now, whether one looks at it as caused by you or God or both, is where God planned all along for you to be at this point in time. You don't have lost time to make up for. And if you get to some point where you feel like, "Yeah, now I'm surfing!", you may feel like that is finally "God's will for my life", and forget how easily and quickly you can be tumbled over and ground into the sand, which is all by God's doing according to plan, (and yours by ignorance, childishness, self-importance and rebellion).

God obviously had a plan in Jonah's rebellion, it has been speculated that his appearance and demeanor by the time he actually got to Ninevah were necessary for Ninevah to take his message seriously. But we can know for sure that part of the plan was for us to get the story, present day --to discuss it and think about it. Yet one with the mindset of (apparently) most Christians nowadays might think that his rebellion was only Jonah's doing, and not God's plan, even though God used it for good. (Joseph to his brothers: "You indeed meant it for evil, but God meant it for good (My emphasis)).

I prayed "sincerely" (ha!) with many tears and years of effort to please God and to rid my life of "sin which does so easily beset us", and begging for wisdom and begged to know him. And from my continued inability, including when I "gave up", I gained an understanding of God's ways and got a different worldview, not just how God handles his creation, but the place of the creatures, particularly the humans he made in his own image. Christ says, "Without me you can do nothing."

(I'm convinced God uses EVERYTHING for his purposes, and doesn't need our obedience to accomplish his plans. (WE need our obedience, not only for the satisfaction of knowing we haven't added this or that particular sin to Christ's punishment paying for that sin, but to know that at least in that one episode we have behaved as though we are indeed in Christ.))

TenthAveN · Dec 13, 2020

Mark Quayle said:
Thanks for elaborating. I noticed you have left out any references to guilt, although you mention failure. I don't know if that is good or bad that you don't mention it. Guilt played a huge part in my fight with repentance and closeness to God. But I am not you, and don't mean this as a criticism, nor as more than a something I noticed.

What I mean by God running your life: Hyper-Calvinists might say the same thing, but to me it's not Hyper-Calvinist; it's just simple Biblical fact that where you are right now, whether one looks at it as caused by you or God or both, is where God planned all along for you to be at this point in time. You don't have lost time to make up for. And if you get to some point where you feel like, "Yeah, now I'm surfing!", you may feel like that is finally "God's will for my life", and forget how easily and quickly you can be tumbled over and ground into the sand, which is all by God's doing according to plan, (and yours by ignorance, childishness, self-importance and rebellion).

God obviously had a plan in Jonah's rebellion, it has been speculated that his appearance and demeanor by the time he actually got to Ninevah were necessary for Ninevah to take his message seriously. But we can know for sure that part of the plan was for us to get the story, present day --to discuss it and think about it. Yet one with the mindset of (apparently) most Christians nowadays might think that his rebellion was only Jonah's doing, and not God's plan, even though God used it for good. (Joseph to his brothers: "You indeed meant it for evil, but God meant it for good (My emphasis)).

I prayed "sincerely" (ha!) with many tears and years of effort to please God and to rid my life of "sin which does so easily beset us", and begging for wisdom and begged to know him. And from my continued inability, including when I "gave up", I gained an understanding of God's ways and got a different worldview, not just how God handles his creation, but the place of the creatures, particularly the humans he made in his own image. Christ says, "Without me you can do nothing."

(I'm convinced God uses EVERYTHING for his purposes, and doesn't need our obedience to accomplish his plans. (WE need our obedience, not only for the satisfaction of knowing we haven't added this or that particular sin to Christ's punishment paying for that sin, but to know that at least in that one episode we have behaved as though we are indeed in Christ.))

I did feel guilt, but not the kind of guilt that leads to repentance. I mourned the consequences of my sin, not the sin itself. I agonized over my worldly sorrow, not knowing how to turn it into godly sorrow. I prayed countless times for the gift of godly sorrow and a softened heart. After reading John, it seemed to me the difference between godly sorrow and worldly sorrow is Judas and Peter. One tried to atone for his sins by trying to undo it, one simply went to Jesus. It’s never been simple for me. When I’m trying to trust in Jesus alone, I wonder if I’m doing it right. It’s a pain. I guess the point is that I did feel guilt, but not the correct guilt.

gingertail27 · Dec 13, 2020

TenthAveN said:
To elaborate on what I mean by burnt out, I think my bought of mental illnesses was brought on by my failure to feel joy in Christ and my subsequent quest to earn grace which was doomed from the start. I thought doing things for Christ would bring me joy, but when no joy was found, I began to doubt my salvation, and turned to works to try to earn that grace. Obviously that was an utter failure. Perhaps I was in a trial, and I did not succeed.

So I started seeing a therapist in the Winter, and I started actually studying the Bible, beginning with John. For a moment at the end when the disciples met Jesus on the shore, and Peter was forgiven, I found hope and thought that things would turn out okay, but the doubt always crept back in. I tried ERP (which is doing things OCD tells you not to do, which is a slippery slope), yet I still couldn’t let all of my obsessions go, and shortly after, I began growing apathetic and my desire to be saved began to wane to the point that I wondered if God was finished with me. And I guess I thought to myself “If God has decided not to continue to call me, I should just do as I please.”

And that’s what I did, though I continued to read the Word every day and pray, perhaps because I didn’t want to go ‘too far’. Then one day I read in the forums about the Israelis “talking to their Messiah” and that “he’s going to be revealed soon” (and I know for sure that whoever they’re about to reveal is not the real Messiah), which frightened me, so I doubled down on my attempts to earn grace, possibly more so than the last time. So that’s where I’m at right now. Every time I read the Word it’s forced and lifeless, every time I pray, I’m physically exhausted to the point that I need to relax a bit before I do so.

I guess that kind of answers your other question too. Also, I’m not sure what you mean by me not being the one running my life. If you mean God is sovereign over everything, then you would be correct. However, if you’re talking about Hyper Calvinism, I don’t quite agree.

It's crazy, I went through the exact same thing you did. And I'm still going through it. I'm praying for you!

Mari17 · Dec 13, 2020

TenthAveN said:
I did feel guilt, but not the kind of guilt that leads to repentance. I mourned the consequences of my sin, not the sin itself. I agonized over my worldly sorrow, not knowing how to turn it into godly sorrow. I prayed countless times for the gift of godly sorrow and a softened heart. After reading John, it seemed to me the difference between godly sorrow and worldly sorrow is Judas and Peter. One tried to atone for his sins by trying to undo it, one simply went to Jesus. It’s never been simple for me. When I’m trying to trust in Jesus alone, I wonder if I’m doing it right. It’s a pain. I guess the point is that I did feel guilt, but not the correct guilt.

OCD does tend to make things complicated. Although I'm not a therapist or doctor - just a fellow OCD sufferer - when I look at your posts, this is what it looks like to me:
1. You have an obsession about losing your salvation.
2. This obsession causes you to hyper-analyze your thoughts and feelings, leading you to wonder if you actual believe "correctly" and have a "correct" faith and repentance.
3. Hyper-analyzing your feelings, of course, leads to even more feelings of not having the correct feelings. LOL.
4. The course of action, then, is to focus on your choices rather than your feelings. To my understanding, feelings do not "make" one a Christian; they're a nice by-product, of course, but not necessary to accepting salvation and following Christ. Your OCD would LOVE to have you stay focused on your feelings and fears, staying stuck on feeling like you're not having the "right" emotions. All of that is irrelevant. All that matters is that you CHOOSE to follow Christ - whether or not you feel like you want to. It's my belief that God's grace is big enough to "fill the gaps" for us even if we're not believing/repenting/whatever perfectly, and that He is mighty and loving enough to keep leading us in the process of sanctification, changing us bit by bit into who He wants us to be. We OCDers depend so much on our own perfectionism, but the truth is, we will never be perfect enough. That's where grace comes in. And we will definitely never become perfect all at once. That's why sanctification is a process. Our job, basically, is to learn to trust God more and our own perfectionism less. Easier said than done, of course.

Apathy

TenthAveN

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Mark Quayle

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TenthAveN

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sparow

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TenthAveN

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Tolworth John

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Mark Quayle

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gingertail27

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