Any Former Sedevecantists? I'd like to hear your experiences with Sedevecantism

Tori_12345 · Nov 4, 2019

What do you guys think were the good things that came out of Vatican 2?

Not David · Nov 4, 2019

Tori_12345 said:
Vatican 2 wasn't as bad as the Sedevecantists make it out to be. I don't like how they downright insult Vatican 2 and the Popes from John XIII to our current Pope Francis. Obviously, these are not perfect men, but God put them in Saint Peter's seat for a reason.

I've had Sedevecantists who hate Francis for a myriad of reasons, but one of the reasons that they put forward which I can't understand are: that he is pro-migrant.

Look. Here is my opinion. You are welcome to respectfully disagree with me, but I see nothing wrong with supporting migrants. "Migrants are first of all human persons”, Pope Francis said, “they are the symbol of all those rejected by today’s globalized society”. That is true. I feel like the world is not doing enough to help those who are suffering and escaping from wars, poverty, and other hardships. "The weakest and most vulnerable must be helped," the Pope also added. And Sedevecantists hating on the Pope for saying this is, in my opinion, unreasonable.

I know this seems like I brought on a random topic about Vatican 2, Pope Francis, and the migrant situation, but I can't say these things to my family and to those in my Sedevecantist parish, because they will accuse me of being 'pro-Francis' and a liberal. I would also like to hear your thoughts and opinions about this! I like hearing other people's points of views. Like I mentioned earlier, I ask that any discussions and debates be cordial and respectful!

Maybe you should go to the Catholic forum.

zippy2006 · Nov 4, 2019

Liberal Protestantism - Liberal Catholicism - Moderate Catholicism - Conservative Catholicism - Sedevecantism

Of course, we need to try to stay in the middle. It is easy to move to the left and tempting to move to the right. My general advice would be to find a good orthodox church and get involved in the community there.

It's more difficult in your case, for you are still very much a part of a sedevecantist community (in order to keep the peace in your family).

Another Counter-Reformation? I suppose it depends what you mean by that. I don't think we need another council at this point in time. As for the abuses that concern the Sedevecantists, they are on the wean. The young priests are orthodox and theologically conservative. That will filter into the structural Church in time. Patience is needed, though.

Tori_12345 said:
What do you guys think were the good things that came out of Vatican 2?

First, what are some of the most common objections from the community you grew up in, both to Vatican II and the time preceding it?

JackRT · Nov 4, 2019

I grew up in the "traditional RCC" but have since left for various reasons not the least of which was the church failing to realize the potential of Vatican II. The church slipped right back into conservatism with no real reforms being realized at all. I see real potential with Pope Francis but no real hope of realizing it. At the moment there is nothing that would lure me back to the RCC.

KarlKarlingIII · Nov 4, 2019

zippy2006 said:
In my opinion that doesn't function as an internal motive, for many such communities believe themselves to have clergy and sacraments. The fact of the matter may differ from community to community, and from interpretation to interpretation, but this isn't a perceived problem for many sedevecantists, at least in the short term.

They have such a bunker mentality though. According to them, the true Church has essentially vanished, which would seem to contradict Matt 16:18 and apostolic succession in general.

There are barely any SSPX in most areas on the US, let alone Sedevecantists.

Tori_12345 · Nov 4, 2019

zippy2006 said:
Liberal Protestantism - Liberal Catholicism - Moderate Catholicism - Conservative Catholicism - Sedevecantism

Of course, we need to try to stay in the middle. It is easy to move to the left and tempting to move to the right. My general advice would be to find a good orthodox church and get involved in the community there.

It's more difficult in your case, for you are still very much a part of a sedevecantist community (in order to keep the peace in your family).

Another Counter-Reformation? I suppose it depends what you mean by that. I don't think we need another council at this point in time. As for the abuses that concern the Sedevecantists, they are on the wean. The young priests are orthodox and theologically conservative. That will filter into the structural Church in time. Patience is needed, though.

First, what are some of the most common objections from the community you grew up in, both to Vatican II and the time preceding it?

Well, the mass change, the mass being said in English and other languages natives speak, discontinuing some of the traditions (e.g not eating meat on Fridays, not wearing veils, not saying the St. Michael's prayer after Mass, changing the name Extreme Unction to Anointing of the Sick, altar girls, change of vestments, Pope Francis not wearing the traditional garments that previous Popes wore, stuff like this ). Hope this helps you to understand where I am getting at!

KarlKarlingIII · Nov 4, 2019

Tori_12345 said:
Well, the mass change, the mass being said in English and other languages natives speak, discontinuing some of the traditions (e.g not eating meat on Fridays, not wearing veils, not saying the St. Michael's prayer after Mass, changing the name Extreme Unction to Anointing of the Sick, altar girls, change of vestments, Pope Francis not wearing the traditional garments that previous Popes wore, stuff like this ). Hope this helps you to understand where I am getting at!

Both the Orthodox (some of the mainline ones) and the Roman church traditions have been attacked in this way by institutional pressure, however it seems the Roman Catholics pay attention more to the central institution of their faith, the Vatican due to papal supremacy. There is no such center of Eastern Orthodoxy. The Ecumenical Patriarch can try to force his will, but the local churches often disagree with him. Just an observation I have made. The proposed solution of Sedevecantists is just the individual picking the popes he thinks are Catholic, which is contrary to Vatican I teachings. Their problem I suppose is being in communion with someone such as Francis who has made many bizarre statements. They are also probably resisting the notion that the can Church move it’s position on doctrinal issues. But they are still just kicking the can down the road defending a papal office which they claim is empty.

In my opinion, institutions and jurisdictions are the creation of man in order to make the Church more efficient, but in reality they are not efficient.

FreeinChrist · Nov 5, 2019

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Any Former Sedevecantists? I'd like to hear your experiences with Sedevecantism

Tori_12345

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Not David

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zippy2006

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Tori_12345

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