Any Christians Have Questions for a "Non-Believer"?

Question.Everything · Oct 25, 2011

I know the typical way to explore Christianity is by asking Christians questions, but I think the same can be accomplished doing the reverse. I'm interested in questions that Christians might have for me on my worldviews, why I believe certain things, etc. In exploring my own answers with discussions here I may gain new perspectives on how Christians perceive things, and maybe discover some holes in my reasoning.

30 second background:

I won't say I was a "true believer", but I did truly think the Bible was the word of God who existed and that Jesus was the son of God and our savior. I now believe Christianity is not true in part because of the absolutism it conveys (ie. a loving God would not set a faith-based requirement as the only way to achieve everlasting peace).

Ask away!

Hakan101 · Oct 25, 2011

Question.Everything said:
I know the typical way to explore Christianity is by asking Christians questions, but I think the same can be accomplished doing the reverse. I'm interested in questions that Christians might have for me on my worldviews, why I believe certain things, etc. In exploring my own answers with discussions here I may gain new perspectives on how Christians perceive things, and maybe discover some holes in my reasoning.

30 second background:

I won't say I was a "true believer", but I did truly think the Bible was the word of God who existed and that Jesus was the son of God and our savior. I now believe Christianity is not true in part because of the absolutism it conveys (ie. a loving God would not set a faith-based requirement as the only way to achieve everlasting peace).

Ask away!

Why do you believe a loving God would not set a faith-based requirement as the only way to achieve everlasting life?

Question.Everything · Oct 25, 2011

Hakan101 said:
Why do you believe a loving God would not set a faith-based requirement as the only way to achieve everlasting life?

Because faith abandons reason and I mentally can't think without using reason, especially for such a monumental topic. I'm simply not a person of faith...I hope for things, but I don't wager my life on things that are unreasonable. I'm condemned to eternal suffering for something I can't control; that's not loving.

What I would hope for is that if there is a grand designer out there, he wouldn't judge me for relying on the only thing I see that I can verify exists...the natural world. There are so many differing (and unproven) arguments describing the supernatural that there's no reasonable way you can say "My story about the supernatural is true and yours isn't."

Hakan101 · Oct 25, 2011

Question.Everything said:
Because faith abandons reason and I mentally can't think without using reason, especially for such a monumental topic. I'm simply not a person of faith...I hope for things, but I don't wager my life on things that are unreasonable. I'm condemned to eternal suffering for something I can't control; that's not loving.

What I would hope for is that if there is a grand designer out there, he wouldn't judge me for relying on the only thing I see that I can verify exists...the natural world. There are so many differing (and unproven) arguments describing the supernatural that there's no reasonable way you can say "My story about the supernatural is true and yours isn't."

How does faith *abandon* reason?

You've just said you do not wager your life on things you think are unreasonable. Isn't that choice under your control?

Question.Everything · Oct 25, 2011

Hakan101 said:
How does faith *abandon* reason?

Because you can have legitimate faith in something without any reason. Reason is not required to have faith (that's not to say that faith and reason don't go together sometimes). Evidential reasons are not required to have faith that Jesus existed, Jesus was God, and God exists.

I think that given the circumstances (the contrasting, different world religions), you need more than faith to prove an absolute truth such as the Bible. Since there are no reasons why the Bible is any more true than the Koran, I can't put faith into one book over another.

You've just said you do not wager your life on things you think are unreasonable. Isn't that choice under your control?

I can't control what I innately see as reasonable or not, for instance I can't "make" myself believe in Santa Claus. Now Santa is probably a bit more unreasonable than Christianity (maybe hehe), but the point is that I can't make myself believe in Santa because it's unreasonable. If I had reasons to believe in Santa, I would.

Hakan101 · Oct 25, 2011

Question.Everything said:
Because you can have legitimate faith in something without any reason. Reason is not required to have faith (that's not to say that faith and reason don't go together sometimes). Evidential reasons are not required to have faith that Jesus existed, Jesus was God, and God exists.

I think that given the circumstances (the contrasting, different world religions), you need more than faith to prove an absolute truth such as the Bible. Since there are no reasons why the Bible is any more true than the Koran, I can't put faith into one book over another.

I can't control what I innately see as reasonable or not, for instance I can't "make" myself believe in Santa Claus. Now Santa is probably a bit more unreasonable than Christianity (maybe hehe), but the point is that I can't make myself believe in Santa because it's unreasonable. If I had reasons to believe in Santa, I would.

You are right that you can't make yourself believe. I don't know of other beliefs, but God said that if you seek him out, he will give you faith. This implies one first does not have faith. Therefore, don't you have a choice to seek faith, or to not seek faith?

Do you want to have faith?

Question.Everything · Oct 26, 2011

Hakan101 said:
I don't know of other beliefs, but God said that if you seek him out, he will give you faith. This implies one first does not have faith. Therefore, don't you have a choice to seek faith, or to not seek faith?

How does a non-believer seek faith? I've read the Bible as a believer and prayed to God when I believed in him. I've read the Bible as a non-believer and prayed to a God I didn't even believe was there (asking to shed light where I may possibly be in the dark). Nothing has ever come of it and God has never revealed himself to me.

Do you want to have faith?

That depends on what we're talking about. If I have a friend who is dying of cancer, I wouldn't say it's a bad thing to have faith that they'll come through it alive. It'll give them some peace of mind to know I'm optimistic, and it won't affect me either way.

Now, do I want to have faith in a God who will eternally torment me for not believing in him? That's like pointing a loaded gun at my head and saying "Do you want faith or not?" The grace of God shouldn't be that threatening if he's truly loving. And since the stakes here are so high, I can't believe one way or the other without any real, objective proof...faith won't cut it.

IndieVisible · Oct 26, 2011

What makes you think I would have any thing to ask a non-believer?

nubs · Oct 26, 2011

IndieVisible said:
What makes you think I would have any thing to ask a non-believer?

You should read the original post.

IndieVisible · Oct 26, 2011

I did

Question.Everything · Oct 26, 2011

IndieVisible said:
What makes you think I would have any thing to ask a non-believer?

I don't know, did I call your name out specifically? If you don't have a question, don't ask one...pretty simple.

IndieVisible · Oct 26, 2011

Question.Everything said:
I don't know, did I call your name out specifically? If you don't have a question, don't ask one...pretty simple.

That was my question

I am being serious. This is such a unorthodox way of gaining knowledge. We are suppose to seek God not seek questions about ourselves.

nubs · Oct 26, 2011

IndieVisible said:
I did

I'll try to translate. He is wondering if anyone is wondering why he believes the way he did or why he stopped believing.

If you wouldn't have any questions I would assume you wouldn't have opened the thread to begin with.

IndieVisible · Oct 26, 2011

Thanks for the translation how did u know I could not read english lol

Question.Everything · Oct 26, 2011

IndieVisible said:
I am being serious. This is such a unorthodox way of gaining knowledge. We are suppose to seek God not seek questions about ourselves.

I am sorry for not following the Eastern Orthodox method of gaining knowledge.

I cannot seek God because I don't think he's there, the only way to begin is to seek through myself and look for holes in my reasoning.

IndieVisible · Oct 26, 2011

Question.Everything said:
I am sorry for not following the Eastern Orthodox method of gaining knowledge.

I cannot seek God because I don't think he's there, the only way to begin is to seek through myself and look for holes in my reasoning.

Another question:

Why are you seeking some thing that is not there?

Hakan101 · Oct 26, 2011

Question.Everything said:
How does a non-believer seek faith? I've read the Bible as a believer and prayed to God when I believed in him. I've read the Bible as a non-believer and prayed to a God I didn't even believe was there (asking to shed light where I may possibly be in the dark). Nothing has ever come of it and God has never revealed himself to me.

Romans 10:13 "For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. 14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news! 16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, Lord, who has believed our message? 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ."

That depends on what we're talking about. If I have a friend who is dying of cancer, I wouldn't say it's a bad thing to have faith that they'll come through it alive. It'll give them some peace of mind to know I'm optimistic, and it won't affect me either way.

Now, do I want to have faith in a God who will eternally torment me for not believing in him? That's like pointing a loaded gun at my head and saying "Do you want faith or not?" The grace of God shouldn't be that threatening if he's truly loving. And since the stakes here are so high, I can't believe one way or the other without any real, objective proof...faith won't cut it.

Where do you see Christians pointing guns at other men, forcing them to believe? Isn't it other men, who point guns at Christians, killing them because they won't believe otherwise? Did Jesus say "Hate your enemy", or "only love thy neighbor if they believe?" Don't you think the grace of God is evident, that he does not smite evil on the spot, but actually blesses sinners even when they are not deserving? If God wasn't so gracious, wouldn't he perform many more smitings, and wouldn't this be plain for us all to see?

How much do you think God hates evil?
How much do you think God loves us?

AlexBP · Oct 26, 2011

Question.Everything said:
Ask away!

Have you read any books of Christian apologetics? If so, which ones?

Many Christians have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, speak with Jesus Christ, and hear from Jesus Christ. Do you believe these people are (a) lying (b) hallucinating or mentally ill (c) something else?

bling · Oct 26, 2011

Question.Everything said:
I am sorry for not following the Eastern Orthodox method of gaining knowledge.

I cannot seek God because I don't think he's there, the only way to begin is to seek through myself and look for holes in my reasoning.

You have faith (Trust) in a lot of things.

To look out your window and see a tree will cause you to reason: How could such a thing happen?

You may say: I do not know or care to know. But your actions show you believe in a creator or believe there is no intelligent designer. To believe intelligence came about from nothing or it came from an infinite number of causes take a lot of faith.

What makes you think you would be happy in the Christian heaven?

Having a system based on faith in a benevolent creators Love; seems extremely fair since the lowliest mature adult on earth can have faith in a benevolent creator and should/could/would have a huge desire for that type of a creator. This system is the best way for humans with just a little willingness to accept Gods help (Charity) to have eternity surrounded by this Love, while those with too much pride to accept charity or even like that type of charity (Love) (continue to refuse Gods Love), can avoid being forced to accept that Love (can stay out of heaven which is not where they want to be).

So what better system would you have to allow those that truly would enjoy heaven and shown that desire to go to heaven (a place of a huge Godly type Love feast) and those that would not be happy in heaven (they desire only a selfish type love) to not have to go there?

Question.Everything · Oct 26, 2011

IndieVisible said:
Why are you seeking some thing that is not there?

Because a lot of people fervently believe he is there, so I believe it at least deserves the respect of some research (seeking).

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