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Another question....

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TrustAndObey

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I have another question, if it pleases the court.

God told the disciples that a spirit does not have flesh and bones as they could see Him have. He even told them to touch Him.

We're told in scripture that God is a spirit and that we must worship Him in spirit. I got that.

What confuses me is that God obviously has a Hand, a Face, a Finger, etc.

My first impression is that spirits have physical attributes, but if they do, why can't we see a spirit leave a person's body when they die?

I've studied the spirit (ruwach and pneuma, etc) and I'm just a little confused as to what it appears to mean to me, as opposed to being told that God is a spirit.

Any comments brothers and sisters?
 
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woobadooba

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It's important to note the context with which Jesus had spoken when He had said that "God is a spirit". It was in response to a statement that a woman had made to Him about the location of where God is to be worshiped.

She placed limitations on God's presence in her life in that she believed that she could only worship Him in certain places, as was the belief of her fathers. But Jesus response to her was one which informed her that God's presence in our lives isn't limited as such, but that we should have it determined within our hearts that no matter where we are we will be engaged in the act and principle of worshiping God. For, we worship God out of love for Him (spirit), and our lives testify of our love for Him in the things that we say and do which speak of His will (truth). Hence spirit and truth.

So the issue here has nothing to do with a God that has no form, but of a God who is omnipresent. Hence "God is a spirit." You can find the story here: Jn. 4:7-26

As for your second question regarding our spirit, it is true that it could mean breath; yet, it can also represent the seat of our emotions. So it's not an actual entity that lives outside of the body that one could see.
 
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thecountrydoc

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Hi Lainie,

Perhaps it will be of help in answering your quetion if we go back to Gen. 2:7 and take a closer look at the meanings of the words used there to tell us about God's creation of man.
"And the Lord God formed man out of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Gen. 2:7.
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There are four phrases here that contine words whose meanig from the Hebrew I think will be of help in gaining a fuller understanding of what happens when we die.

God formed man. Aditional important details about Adam's creation are given. We are allowed to peer, as it were, into the work shop of God and to watch His hand preforming the mysterious act of creation. The word for "to form," yasar, implies an act of moulding and fashioning into a form corresponding in design and appearance to the divine plan. The word is used in describing the activity of the potter (Isa. 29:16; 49:5 ect.), of the goldsmith fashioning idols (Isa. 44:9; Hab. 2:18), and of God, who fashions various things, amoung others, the light (Isa. 45:7), the human eye (Ps. 94:9), the heart (Ps.33:15), and the seasons (Ps. 74:17).

Of the dust of the ground. That man is composed of materials derived fom the ground, the elements of the earth, is confirmed by science. Decomposition of the human body after death bears witness to the same fact. The major elements making up the human body are oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, and nitrogen. Many others exist in smaller proportions. How true that man was made of "the dust of the ground," and also whence he was taken (Eccl. 12:7).

The breath of life. "Breath," neshamah. From the Source of all life the life-giving principal entered the lifeless body of Adam. The agency by which the spark of life was transfered to his body is said to be the "breath" of God. The same thought appears in Job 33:4. "The breath [nesamah] of the Almigty hath given me life." Imparted to man the "breath" is equvalent to his lfe; it is life itself (Isa. 2:22). At death there is "no breath [neshamah, life] left in him" (1 Kings 17:17). This "beath of life" in man differs in no way from the "breath of life" in aimals, for all reieve life from God. (Gen. 2:21, 22; Eccl. 3:19). It therefore can not be the mind or intellegence.

A living soul. When the lifeless form of man was infused with divine "breath," neshamah, of life, man became a living "soul," nephesh. The word nephesh has a variety of meanings: (1) breath (Job 42:21), (2) life (1 Kings 17:21; 2 Sam. 18:13; ect.), (3) heart as the seat of affectios (Gen. 34:3; S.of Sol. 1:7; ect.), (4) living being (Gen 12:5; 36:; Lev. 4:2; ect.), and (5) for emphasizing the personal pronouns (Ps. 3:2; 1 Sam. 18:1; ect,). Note that the nephesh is made by God (Jer. 38:16), and can die (Judges 16:30), be killed (Num. 31:19), be eaten (metaphoricaly, Eze. 22:25), and be refreshed (Ps. 19:7; Heb.). None of this applies to the spirit, ruach, indicating clearly the great difference between the two terms. It is obvious from the above survey that the translation "soul" given by the KJV to nephesh of Gen 2:7 is not appropriate, if the commonly used expresion "imortal soul" is implied. Although pouplar, this concpt is completely foreign to the Bible. This passage may be rightly translated: Man became a living being" (RSV). When "soul" is considered synonymous with "being," we gain the Scriptural meaning of nephesh in this text.

I hope that this additional explaination, combine with Woobadooba's coments will give you clear answers for your questions. If you have additional questions please feel free to ask.

Your brother in Christ,
Doc
 
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TrustAndObey

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Thanks for the comments, although I'm still a little confused. It's only because I'm so rusty right now.

Here's another example of what I mean.....

Why do we pray before meals?

Deut 8:10 When thou hast eaten and art full, then thou shalt bless the LORD thy God for the good land which he hath given thee.

I don't remember (which doesn't mean it isn't there) reading scripture that tells us to ask for a blessing upon our meal BEFORE we eat?
 
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freeindeed2

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Hi TrustandObey,

I just popped in for a second.

Christians typically pray before the meal simply because of what Christ did on a few occasions. The Jews still pray after the meal as it was commanded to them.

Hope all is well with you. Blessings!
 
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TrustAndObey

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freeindeed2 said:
Hi TrustandObey,

I just popped in for a second.

Christians typically pray before the meal simply because of what Christ did on a few occasions. The Jews still pray after the meal as it was commanded to them.

Hope all is well with you. Blessings!
Click to expand...

Howdy Free!

Do you have the scripture where Christ prayed over meals? I'm not kidding when I say I'm rusty....but I think I do remember Him praying over the last supper.
 
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freeindeed2

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TrustAndObey said:
Howdy Free!

Do you have the scripture where Christ prayed over meals? I'm not kidding when I say I'm rusty....but I think I do remember Him praying over the last supper.
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Not in front of me, and I'm out of time (busy, busy lately!). Remember, after his resurrection he appeared to his disciples and they recognized him when he blessed the bread before they ate.

Gotta run!
 
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thecountrydoc

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Hi Lainie,

I know you ask 'feeindeed' for a text where Christ prayed over the meal so I hope neither you or he will be offended if I jump in here.

The record of Christ blessing the Last Supper can be found in Matt. 26:26; Mark 14:22; and Luke 22:9.

You also ask in a previous post:
"Why do we pray before meals?"

Next you quoted:
Deut. 8:10; "When thou hast eaten and are full, then shalt thou beless the LORD thy God for the good land which he hath given thee."

In order to understand the full context of this verse it would be well to first read the entire chapter of Deut. 8. It must be remembered that the book of Deuteronomy is also called the book of remberance. It was Moses' last admonition to the Israelites to follow the laws of God, and the reasons why they should not forget those laws, as well as how God had delivered them from Egypt, and provided for them and would contiue to do so, shortly before his death.

When we get to verse 10, they, the Israelites, were to bless and thank God because of ALL that He had given them, not just the food. It is somtimes easy to forget the need for thankfulness and gratitude when the stomach is full. Gratitude should be expressed as well as felt. Without gratitude man is little better than a dumb brute. True nobility of the soul begins with appereciation for the blessings of Heaven and the kindness of our fellow men (Ps. 103:2).

The act of thankfulness by prayer before partaking of our food is to show gratitude and reverance for the Provider of our every need.

I pray that these comments will be of help in answering your questions.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc
 
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freeindeed2

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Don't mind a bit.
 
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woobadooba

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Notice how Jesus gives thanks before distributing the loaves of bread...

"After these things Jesus went over the sea of Galilee, which is the sea of Tiberias. And a great multitude followed him, because they saw his miracles which he did on them that were diseased. And Jesus went up into a mountain, and there he sat with his disciples.

And the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh. When Jesus then lifted up his eyes, and saw a great company come unto him, he saith unto Philip, Whence shall we buy bread, that these may eat? And this he said to prove him: for he himself knew what he would do. Philip answered him, Two hundred pennyworth of bread is not sufficient for them, that every one of them may take a little.

One of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter's brother, saith unto him, There is a lad here, which hath five barley loaves, and two small fishes: but what are they among so many? And Jesus said, Make the men sit down. Now there was much grass in the place. So the men sat down, in number about five thousand.

And Jesus took the loaves; and when he had given thanks, he distributed to the disciples, and the disciples to them that were set down; and likewise of the fishes as much as they would. When they were filled, he said unto his disciples, Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost.

Therefore they gathered them together, and filled twelve baskets with the fragments of the five barley loaves, which remained over and above unto them that had eaten." (Joh 6:1-13)

Hence when we give thanks to God before we eat we are following Jesus example of acknowledging that all good things come from God.

As a side note: When Jesus had informed them to gather up the fragments that remained, so as to lose nothing, He was thus indicating that nothing that is given to us as a result of God's blessing should be thrown out, or treated with contempt.

If only we would regard each other with such esteem, not only would our numbers multiply, but our church would also be a much happier place.
 
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