Another question for atheists...

Danny777 · Feb 12, 2013

One of the reasons I am pleased to be a follower of Christ is that I believe I have an eternity in heaven to look forward to when I die. This provides me hope and purpose during this life and removes any fear of death. (BTW, I'm not suggesting the atheist has no hope and purpose during life and fears death...).

If it turns out my faith in unfounded and there is nothing, this is irrelevant as I will never find out...

My question to the atheist is:

What do you think will happen to you when you die?

TemperateSeaIsland · Feb 12, 2013

My personality and memories die with the brain that sustains them.

tonybeer · Feb 12, 2013

I don't think anything happens when I die. I just die, like any other creature on this planet. I don't see how an afterlife is even possible, and strikes me as wishful thinking.

Yes I do fear death. I think almost everyone does. When a bus is coming I jump out of the way. Do you try and avoid death, and if so why when heaven is so wonderful?

Would I want an afterlife? Probably yes, though wouldn't eternity get pretty boring?

I have no way of making myself believe an afterlife exists, even though it would probably make me happier. Without the evidence I just can't make myself believe it.

Danny777 · Feb 12, 2013

tonybeer said:
Yes I do fear death. I think almost everyone does. When a bus is coming I jump out of the way. Do you try and avoid death, and if so why when heaven is so wonderful?

Yes, I do try to avoid death (so I also jump out of the way of buses!) but this is not because I fear death. As I said in original post, this is because I believe life has purpose. Therefore I embrace life (which includes trying to avoid death!) knowing that when I do die there is something better to look forward to...
I also believe my life has been given to me by God - for that reason, I should avoid recklessly or deliberately ending my life and attempt to live a life pleasing to God...

tonybeer said:
Would I want an afterlife? Probably yes, though wouldn't eternity get pretty boring?

I don't think that the concept of time and feelings of boredom will be quite the same as we experience at present. I think it will make a lot more sense the other side of this life and that any "concerns" we had re. boredom will prove unfounded!

tonybeer said:
I have no way of making myself believe an afterlife exists, even though it would probably make me happier. Without the evidence I just can't make myself believe it.

That's fair enough...after all, we are all looking at the same world around us...

Oafman · Feb 12, 2013

My personality, my memories, my thoughts, and my 'soul' (as you might term it) end when I die. They're just electrical impulses.

Some might thinks that's a shame. That it all just ends so abruptly. Maybe it is a shame, but nature doesn't care what we think.

My body goes back to the earth, so the atoms which currently make up my body can be recycled. All that remains is my legacy, how people remember me.

Do I fear death? Well, I fear the process - most people die in pain. I fear regret on my death bed, which motivates me to live my life as well as I can. BUt I certainly don't fear what comes after death, because it's nothing, and I won't be there to witness it.

Gadarene · Feb 12, 2013

Energy potentials collapse in my brain, destroying the sum total of remembered experiences, knowledge etc that it contained, I go into the ground and rot.

ianb321red · Feb 12, 2013

tonybeer said:
I don't think anything happens when I die. I just die, like any other creature on this planet. I don't see how an afterlife is even possible, and strikes me as wishful thinking.

Yes I do fear death. I think almost everyone does. When a bus is coming I jump out of the way. Do you try and avoid death, and if so why when heaven is so wonderful?

Would I want an afterlife? Probably yes, though wouldn't eternity get pretty boring?

I have no way of making myself believe an afterlife exists, even though it would probably make me happier. Without the evidence I just can't make myself believe it.

I'm probably about to go off on a tangent here, but back in my pre-Christian university days some 15 odd years ago one of the things that really grabbed my attention (when studying philosophy of the mind) was dualism. Now within dualism we have substance dualism and this is the philosophy most compatible with the theological thoughts surrounding a distinct physical world for immortal souls.

And of course Descartes was a Christian - not that I particularly noticed or cared about this at the time.

Of course the existence of the mind separate from the body doesn't empirically demonstrate anything about the afterlife - I know that as much as anyone else.

There are, as one would expect proponents of substance dualism who are not religious. So what is interesting to me is that philosophically you can hold this position (of substance dualism) independently of any position you hold or refute theologically.

So in terms of the afterlife as a concept, hypothetically speaking is a person more likely to accept a theological position on this "non-evidenced" so to speak, if they are willing to hold a similar position philosophically?

Of course, the theological evidence ultimately transcends any philosophical viewpoint since it is (for the Christian) held to be divine in origin and inspiration which puts it in a totally different league to begin with.

Genersis · Feb 12, 2013

Well, brain activity will cease, and that's about it.
I'm really not sure how it would feel to experience such.
I would assume a state of confusion and disorientation, with emotions being one of the last functions to cease, would be the case. I would think it a very scary event all-in-all, and not something I look forward to, or like to think about.

Bungle_Bear · Feb 12, 2013

My brain will cease to function, my internal organs will follow suit and soon afterwards the whole lot will begin to decompose - just like any other animal. There's nothing special about us in that respect.

Bungle_Bear · Feb 12, 2013

Danny777 said:
If it turns out my faith in unfounded and there is nothing, this is irrelevant as I will never find out...

Pascal's wager, eh? Your statement is only correct if there is no god of any sort - if any other religion is correct you're in just as much trouble as any other non-believer.

Genersis · Feb 12, 2013

Bungle_Bear said:
Pascal's wager, eh? Your statement is only correct if there is no god of any sort - if any other religion is correct you're in just as much trouble as any other non-believer.

I'm not really sure he intended to imply the wager.

Bungle_Bear · Feb 12, 2013

Genersis said:
I'm not really sure he intended to imply the wager.

"..." at the end of a sentence tends to indicate there is an implication being made, a hanging "but". I took that implication to be Pascal's wager. I may be wrong, but not sure what else it could be given the context.

Danny777 · Feb 13, 2013

Bungle_Bear said:
Pascal's wager, eh? Your statement is only correct if there is no god of any sort - if any other religion is correct you're in just as much trouble as any other non-believer.

That is true, although I am quite confident that faith in Jesus Christ is a safe "bet"! Having said that, quite a few other religions are more flexible is allowing people in who were nearly right!

Unfortunately the atheist has no hope - it seems to me that the best case scenario for the atheist is to be right, probably fear death all his/her life and never find out that they were right anyway!

None of the comments so far from atheists make atheism sound like a more attractive belief system...

Genersis · Feb 13, 2013

Danny777 said:
That is true, although I am quite confident that faith in Jesus Christ is a safe "bet"! Having said that, quite a few other religions are more flexible is allowing people in who were nearly right!

Unfortunately the atheist has no hope - it seems to me that the best case scenario for the atheist is to be right, probably fear death all his/her life and never find out that they were right anyway!

None of the comments so far from atheists make atheism sound like a more attractive belief system...

One doesn't believe something(or in this case, not believe in something) because it's the most comforting to them, they believe it because those beliefs, to them, seem best to represent reality.

Atheism is the lack of believe in any gods. I don't lack belief in gods because I want to, I lack belief because I do not find the idea of any gods existing likely, or the arguments for such convincing.

Bungle_Bear · Feb 13, 2013

Danny777 said:
Unfortunately the atheist has no hope - it seems to me that the best case scenario for the atheist is to be right, probably fear death all his/her life and never find out that they were right anyway!

That's a slightly odd thing to say. The best case scenario for anyone is to be right! If Islam is right, who is better off - you or me?

None of the comments so far from atheists make atheism sound like a more attractive belief system...

As Genersis said, you don't believe things because they are attractive. You believe them because they best meet the evidence you see. It's not a choice we can make.

Danny777 · Feb 13, 2013

Bungle_Bear said:
That's a slightly odd thing to say. The best case scenario for anyone is to be right! If Islam is right, who is better off - you or me?

If Islam is right, we are both in trouble. If I am right, you are in trouble. If you are right, no-one is in trouble!

I really asked this question to see how atheists dealt and approached the issue of death. Is it an attitude of fear, resignation, indifference etc?

Bungle_Bear said:
As Genersis said, you don't believe things because they are attractive. You believe them because they best meet the evidence you see. It's not a choice we can make.

It IS a choice we can make. I see the same evidence as you but my conclusion is that there is evidence of a designer everywhere which has lead ME to believe in God. We are all working with the same evidence - it is strange that we are all led so such different conclusions...

Skavau · Feb 13, 2013

Danny777 said:
If Islam is right, we are both in trouble. If I am right, you are in trouble. If you are right, no-one is in trouble!

I really asked this question to see how atheists dealt and approached the issue of death. Is it an attitude of fear, resignation, indifference etc?

We might fear death. Some of us may even fear the prospect of Christianity being true. Our beliefs however derive from our conviction. They are not choices. They are not statements of fancy but statements and observations we make on reality based on our interpretation of reality.

It IS a choice we can make. I see the same evidence as you but my conclusion is that there is evidence of a designer everywhere which has lead ME to believe in God. We are all working with the same evidence - it is strange that we are all led so such different conclusions...

No it isn't. That's what you seem to have missed. One of the most popular inaccuracies on this forum is that belief is a choice. There's no room for choice there at all. Belief in a proposition or not depends entirely on whether or not we are convinced by it. We do not "choose" to not believe in a God(s). We are unable to. We do not because we do not see that any evidence or good argument exists for God's existence.

Until that changes then that is how it will remain.

Danny777 · Feb 13, 2013

Skavau said:
We might fear death. Some of us may even fear the prospect of Christianity being true. Our beliefs however derive from our conviction. They are not choices. They are not statements of fancy but statements and observations we make on reality based on our interpretation of reality.

No it isn't. That's what you seem to have missed. One of the most popular inaccuracies on this forum is that belief is a choice. There's no room for choice there at all. Belief in a proposition or not depends entirely on whether or not we are convinced by it. We do not "choose" to not believe in a God(s). We are unable to. We do not because we do not see that any evidence or good argument exists for God's existence.

Until that changes then that is how it will remain.

I completely disagree - of course it is a choice!! You look around and decide there is not evidence for belief in God - I look around at exactly the same world and decide there IS evidence for God...we BOTH choose what conclusion to accept based on the same observation of the same world!

You say you are unable to believe in God - I could equally say I feel unable NOT to believe in God... Either way, we have BOTH made a choice based on our observations...!

Skavau · Feb 13, 2013

Danny777 said:
I completely disagree - of course it is a choice!!

No, it isn't. Belief does not work that way.

I cannot put it much simple than what I just said, but I will try. I believe that 2+2=4 is a true statement. I cannot just choose to think otherwise. I would have to be convinced that 2+2=4 is incorrect before I would be able to think otherwise. The same is with God and with Christianity. I am a non-Christian and an atheist. I will remain such until I am a recipient of a convincing argument and/or phenomena in the world that convinces me otherwise.

I cannot just decide to become a Christian anymore than you can just decide to become an atheist. We would both have to have our positions challenged sufficiently to require a change of conviction.

You look around and decide there is not evidence for belief in God - I look around at exactly the same world and decide there IS evidence for God...we BOTH choose what conclusion to accept based on the same observation of the same world!

This is half true. We may observe some similar things and draw different conclusions from those observations but this does not mean we necessarily observe or aware of the exact same things. I may have been present at or have read up on things that you have not and you may have observed or read up on things that I have not. These things matter and shape our convictions, preferences and biases in everything.

That we come to these drastically different conclusions based on our observation of reality indicates not choice but conviction. We are convinced they are so. Our observation dictates to us what we can honestly accept and adhere to. To suggest that belief is nothing more than choice is to argue that it is nothing more than whimsy.

You say you are unable to believe in God - I could equally say I feel unable NOT to believe in God...

You likely are, at present unable to not believe in God. After all that is where you believe the evidence and reasoned argument lies. You would have to be convinced before you could think otherwise.

Either way, we have BOTH made a choice based on our observations...!

No, we made a conclusion based on our observations.

Gadarene · Feb 13, 2013

Skavau said:
You likely are, at present unable to not believe in God. After all that is where you believe the evidence and reasoned argument lies. You would have to be convinced before you could think otherwise..

Well, quite.

If this is what Danny really thinks then surely he can choose right now to not believe in God.

Another question for atheists...

Member

Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi

Newbie

Member

Try telling that to these bog brained murphys

-______-

Well-Known Member

Person of Disinterest

Whoot!

Whoot!

Person of Disinterest

Whoot!

Member

Person of Disinterest

Whoot!

Member

Ode to the Forgotten Few

Member

Ode to the Forgotten Few

-______-

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency