An Open Letter to Homophobic Christian Parents

catlover · Oct 25, 2008

But if you are a Christian with a lesbian daughter or a gay son, and if you've allowed yourself to be spoon-fed the typical, traditional condemning rhetoric about homosexuality, I can probably speak for her or him. He or she is probably in the same pain that I'm in.

You raised us to believe that God loves us. You told us that Jesus died to provide forgiveness for all of our sins (presumably, whether you and I define "sin" in the same way or not). One of the first songs you taught us, in Sunday school, was "Yes, Jesus loves me. For the Bible tells me so." And you told us that our place in Heaven was guaranteed, as long as we just believe that.

http://www.whosoever.org/v4i4/parents.html

graceabounding · Oct 25, 2008

Jesus loves us enough to deliver us from our sin, not allow us to stay in it. As someone who is being delivered from homosexuality, I do understand the pain you are feeling. The Church has done a poor job in ministering to those who struggle, but that does not mean they do not care. I've shed many tears over the years, but even in my darkest days, Christ was there. It is not an easy road, but neither was that of our Master. On His darkest day He had my good in mind, shall He not deliver us now?

catlover · Oct 25, 2008

graceabounding said:
Jesus loves us enough to deliver us from our sin, not allow us to stay in it. As someone who is being delivered from homosexuality, I do understand the pain you are feeling. The Church has done a poor job in ministering to those who struggle, but that does not mean they do not care. I've shed many tears over the years, but even in my darkest days, Christ was there. It is not an easy road, but neither was that of our Master. On His darkest day He had my good in mind, shall He not deliver us now?

Well...that is not my challenge homosexual sex-my challenge seems worse but it's not...I don't have people denying me housing or protesting my upcoming funeral...

catlover · Oct 25, 2008

KCKID said:
This is the 3rd post from you that I've read on this subforum in the past 15 minutes. Your screen name belies your attitude. What are you so angry about ...?

This person is probably one of the "lovelies" who made an exodus from this board because they couldn't berate homosexuals enough...sounds like sour grapes...

Zaac · Oct 26, 2008

catlover said:
But if you are a Christian with a lesbian daughter or a gay son, and if you've allowed yourself to be spoon-fed the typical, traditional condemning rhetoric about homosexuality, I can probably speak for her or him. He or she is probably in the same pain that I'm in.

You raised us to believe that God loves us. You told us that Jesus died to provide forgiveness for all of our sins (presumably, whether you and I define "sin" in the same way or not). One of the first songs you taught us, in Sunday school, was "Yes, Jesus loves me. For the Bible tells me so."

And you told us that our place in Heaven was guaranteed, as long as we just believe that.

Click to expand...

http://www.whosoever.org/v4i4/parents.html

Just another letter trying to justify sin. Me and my Christian brethren love gay people just as much as we love straight people. We love them enough to speak God's truth.

I can love you just fine, invite you to the house to hang out and eat dinner and do the same things that I would with any other sinner.

But I'm still gonna call your sin a sin just as I would with anyone else if the subject is broached.

Zaac · Oct 26, 2008

KCKID said:
This is the 3rd post from you that I've read on this subforum in the past 15 minutes. Your screen name belies your attitude. What are you so angry about ...?

Most of yall's attitudes belie your words. There are just many of ya that insist on negatively branding any Christian who aligns himself with God's Word over unGodly beliefs.

There was nothing angry about the statement.

Polycarp1 · Oct 26, 2008

Zaac said:
Most of yall's attitudes belie your words. There are just many of ya that insist on negatively branding any Christian who aligns himself with God's Word over unGodly beliefs.

There was nothing angry about the statement.

You are dead right, Zaac, any good Christian should align himself with God's Word and denounce sinful error.

That's why we're standing by God's Incarnate Word, Jesus Christ, and His message of forgiveness, compassion, new life in Him, and grace abounding, over the efforts of some people to set up the Bible as an inerrant idol in His place, and judge people according to its strictures taken as a set of secular laws for the Christian community rather than as guidelines for keeping His Commandments, including the warning NOT to judge.\

God is merciful; He forgives sin. He sent Christ to atone for the sin of the world.

Any supposedly Christian parent who refuses to countenance having a son or daugher who believes themself to be gay, will get his or her wish. But in a way they may regret.

In only a vanishingly small number of cases will the child be miraculously turned straight. In a few others, the child will discover him/herself to be bisexual and predominantly straight, having been confused by the schoolyard dichotomy that says if you've ever felt any attraction to another person of the same sex/bhaved in any non-sex-role manner, you must be gay.

In far too many cases, they will no longer have a gay child -- but instead a grave to decorate with flowers. In other cases, the chld will angrily leave home at the first opportunity, vowing never to look back. In yet others, including nearly every instance of being sent to 'reparative therapy,' the child will come to know God as someone impotent to heal but capable of heaping an unbearable burden of guilt -- and be unable to share this with anyone who supposedly loves him/her. This simply postpones the two previous possible outcomes for several years of pain and guilt.

Your "victories for Jesus" are being won at the expense of the people they're supposed to be helping. Congratulations, and may you be requited in the same measure!

brightmorningstar · Oct 27, 2008

To catlover,

But if you are a Christian with a lesbian daughter or a gay son, and if you've allowed yourself to be spoon-fed the typical, traditional condemning rhetoric about homosexuality, I can probably speak for her or him. He or she is probably in the same pain that I'm in.

Thats more about the definition of Christianity again. Christians know that Gods purpose in creation is man and woman in union, (Gen 2, Matt 19, Eph 5 etc) and the alternative is celibacy (Matt 19, 1 Cor 7 etc) Same sex unions are condemned (1 Cor 6, 1 Tim 1, Romans 1) You seem to have tried to make out Gods word is condemning rhetoric. But God doesnt wish any should perish but all come to repentance and life through Jesus Christ. (2 Peter 3:9) Death came through disobedience (Gen 3)

whether you and I define "sin" in the same way or not).

This is the problem, no-one would have any sins if the definition of sin was left to the individual to decide, hence sin is not defined by you or I but by God and God has defined it as same sex union in His word (Gen 19, Lev 18 & 20, 1 Cor 6, 1 Tim 1, Romans 1 etc)

Jesus taught that if we love Him we obey His teaching (John 14-16)

brightmorningstar · Oct 27, 2008

To Polycarp1,

You are dead right, Zaac, any good Christian should align himself with God's Word and denounce sinful error.

That's why we're standing by God's Incarnate Word, Jesus Christ, and His message of forgiveness, compassion, new life in Him, and grace abounding, over the efforts of some people to set up the Bible as an inerrant idol in His place, and judge people according to its strictures taken as a set of secular laws for the Christian community rather than as guidelines for keeping His Commandments, including the warning NOT to judge.\

Then I suggest you are aligning your views with part of God’s word in order to ignore other parts of it and actually missing all of it. You see new life in Him, forgiveness and compassion comes through the forgiveness of sin because without it we perish. To introduce something that causes us to perish back into the forgiveness and compassion is ridiculous.
You see if the Bible isn’t inerrant as in ‘sufficient as a rule and standard in matters of faith and conduct’ how can you say that God’s incarnate word is Jesus Christ? That would be just what the errant Bible says to you.

Your whole post is founded on shifting sand.

There is no such thing as a gay or straight child for true Christian parents, the child is being influenced by worldly non Christian ideas. The word of God shows us same sex unions is something pagans believe in and do (Lev 18 & 20, Romans 1)

Lev 20:23 “You must not live according to the customs of the nations I am going to drive out before you. Because they did all these things, I abhorred them. 24 But I said to you, "You will possess their land; I will give it to you as an inheritance, a land flowing with milk and honey." I am the LORD your God, who has set you apart from the nations. “
26 You are to be holy to me [c] because I, the LORD, am holy, and I have set you apart from the nations to be my own

Jase · Oct 27, 2008

Zaac said:
Most of yall's attitudes belie your words. There are just many of ya that insist on negatively branding any Christian who aligns himself with God's Word over unGodly beliefs.

There was nothing angry about the statement.

Why is it that fundies will never denounce the words of other fundies as "unChristian"? HHHR spreads nothing but hate in every post I've seen on this board, and yet all other fundies like Zaac do are applaud such ungodly behavior. Maybe it has to do with the fact that fundies are so desperate to seem right, they will join anyone who agrees with their views, regardless of how insulting they are in expressing them.

brightmorningstar · Oct 27, 2008

Christian values come from the Biblical testimony of God, whether they are seen as 'fundi' or not is just a person's view of God from where they stand.

Zaac · Oct 27, 2008

Polycarp1 said:
You are dead right, Zaac, any good Christian should align himself with God's Word and denounce sinful error.

That's why we're standing by God's Incarnate Word, Jesus Christ, and His message of forgiveness, compassion, new life in Him, and grace abounding, over the efforts of some people to set up the Bible as an inerrant idol in His place, and judge people according to its strictures taken as a set of secular laws for the Christian community rather than as guidelines for keeping His Commandments, including the warning NOT to judge.\

Nice try. But what you're doing is called idolatry. Yes grace abounds. But God's abounding grace gives no one license to sin or to justify sin.

God is merciful; He forgives sin. He sent Christ to atone for the sin of the world.

He is merciful and He does forgive sin. But His mercy and forgiveness covers the sin of those who have accepted Him as Lord and Savior. There is NOTHING in His Word that says that those who continue in unrepentant sin are His children.

6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:6-10

Any supposedly Christian parent who refuses to countenance having a son or daugher who believes themself to be gay, will get his or her wish. But in a way they may regret.

In only a vanishingly small number of cases will the child be miraculously turned straight. In a few others, the child will discover him/herself to be bisexual and predominantly straight, having been confused by the schoolyard dichotomy that says if you've ever felt any attraction to another person of the same sex/bhaved in any non-sex-role manner, you must be gay.

In far too many cases, they will no longer have a gay child -- but instead a grave to decorate with flowers. In other cases, the chld will angrily leave home at the first opportunity, vowing never to look back. In yet others, including nearly every instance of being sent to 'reparative therapy,' the child will come to know God as someone impotent to heal but capable of heaping an unbearable burden of guilt -- and be unable to share this with anyone who supposedly loves him/her. This simply postpones the two previous possible outcomes for several years of pain and guilt.

Your "victories for Jesus" are being won at the expense of the people they're supposed to be helping. Congratulations, and may you be requited in the same measure!

Folks remain enslaved to sin because there are those in this world who want them enslaved to sin.

Whereas some Christ loving parents are praying for deliverance and elevation of a love for Christ over a love of fleshly desires, there are too many encouraging people into a lifestyle that can only lead to sexual sin and lust if they continue to pursue these relationships that are encouraged by so many.

Why should any parent be accepting of anything that will lead their child toward sin instead of toward Christ?

And the Word of God says 18For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravityfor a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. 20If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit,"[f]and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud." 2 Peter 2:18-22

Zaac · Oct 27, 2008

Jase said:
Why is it that fundies will never denounce the words of other fundies as "unChristian"? .

Why is it that liberals who like to encourage that which God's Word calls sin tend to brand as hateful and unChristlike anything that doesn't allow them to sin without rebuke?

HHHR spreads nothing but hate in every post I've seen on this board, and yet all other fundies like Zaac do are applaud such ungodly behavior.

Your view od unGodliness is about as skewed as your view of what is'is not love.

Maybe it has to do with the fact that fundies are so desperate to seem right, they will join anyone who agrees with their views, regardless of how insulting they are in expressing them

Sounds like you're speaking about yourself and your liberal leanings.

I preach the Word of God, not the Word of Zaac. I don't have a view because my sinful man view ain't no better than the next sinful man's view.

I point people to align themselves with God's view as given in His Word. His Word seems to cut like a double edged sword any who do not agree with It.

catlover · Oct 27, 2008

Zaac said:
Most of yall's attitudes belie your words. There are just many of ya that insist on negatively branding any Christian who aligns himself with God's Word over unGodly beliefs.

There was nothing angry about the statement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcos4WRFUec

sure there was that person's post reminds me of this fellow...

Zaac · Oct 27, 2008

catlover said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcos4WRFUec

sure there was that person's post reminds me of this fellow...

He reminds you of some guy in a youtube video. How about judging his words for what they say instead of the words of a guy that pop into your head?

There was STILL nothing angry about his words. Yall just have to associate something negative to the words of anybody that speaks against the liberal viewpoint.

You're quick to acknowledge the words of other men, but even quicker to ignore what GOD's Word says.

KCKID · Oct 27, 2008

Zaac said:
He reminds you of some guy in a youtube video. How about judging his words for what they say instead of the words of a guy that pop into your head?

There was STILL nothing angry about his words. Yall just have to associate something negative to the words of anybody that speaks against the liberal viewpoint.

You're quick to acknowledge the words of other men, but even quicker to ignore what GOD's Word says.

It seems you keep forgetting that the words of God are REALLY the words of MEN, Zaac. None of us know how God feels about issues. We only know how WE feel about issues. YOU feel one way about an issue, I feel another way about the same issue, someone else feels yet another way about the same issue. There is little consensus on ANYTHING when one relies on the words from a book. Words can be misinterpreted, they can be manipulated, they can be misunderstood. Words are unreliable. God speaks through your heart, NOT from a book.

catlover · Oct 27, 2008

Zaac said:
He reminds you of some guy in a youtube video. How about judging his words for what they say instead of the words of a guy that pop into your head?

There was STILL nothing angry about his words. Yall just have to associate something negative to the words of anybody that speaks against the liberal viewpoint.

You're quick to acknowledge the words of other men, but even quicker to ignore what GOD's Word says.

Okay, Zaac...let's put the shoe on the other foot...

Moderators!!! Look at Zaac's icon, he's not a real Christian like I am!

In fact i know God better than Zaac or any other right wing neocon who posts here.

catlover · Oct 27, 2008

KCKID said:
It seems you keep forgetting that the words of God are REALLY the words of MEN, Zaac. None of us know how God feels about issues. We only know how WE feel about issues. YOU feel one way about an issue, I feel another way about the same issue, someone else feels yet another way about the same issue. There is little consensus on ANYTHING when one relies on the words from a book. Words can be misinterpreted, they can be manipulated, they can be misunderstood. Words are unreliable. God speaks through your heart, NOT from a book.

Well...you know the saying anyone who is not with me is against me...that is what some of the montra is from the neocons who post here.

There are a few who want an honest discussion but the majority just want to cram The Bible down people's throats.

Zaac · Oct 27, 2008

KCKID said:
It seems you keep forgetting that the words of God are REALLY the words of MEN, Zaac.

Why would I forget something that isn't true? You seem to have mistaken your confusion for one I don't have.

None of us know how God feels about issues.

I do!

We only know how WE feel about issues.

I've got the Word of God. I know how HE feels.

YOU feel one way about an issue, I feel another way about the same issue, someone else feels yet another way about the same issue.

Naah. What YOU have done is confused GOD's Word with feelings I have not expressed.

There is little consensus on ANYTHING when one relies on the words from a book.

There is little consensus by those who try to justify sin. Those of us who are content to let God be God, accept His Word as Truth and are in full agreement that HE is right and YOU are wrong.

Words can be misinterpreted, they can be manipulated, they can be misunderstood. Words are unreliable. God speaks through your heart, NOT from a book.

Yes that very heart that He tells us is deceitful. Gimme a break. He also says to test the spirits . And you got to know His Word to test the spirits. And if you accepted His Word as given in His Holy Bible, you'd know that whatever spirit it is telling you those lies, is not of God.

Zaac · Oct 27, 2008

catlover said:
Okay, Zaac...let's put the shoe on the other foot...

Moderators!!! Look at Zaac's icon, he's not a real Christian like I am!

In fact i know God better than Zaac or any other right wing neocon who posts here.

How does that put the shoe on the other foot? That STILL didn't make his words angry.

An Open Letter to Homophobic Christian Parents

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