TheDude28 said:Most Lutheran Churches probably 90% have Altar rails as do Anglican and Methodist Churches one of the few mainline churches that doesn't are the Catholics. Which I have never understood because they have the highest belief in the Eucharist via transubstantiation. I guess its just more fall out from the rediculous Vatican II council that tried to change the Church into a worldly orginization instead of changing the world.
You're right, Jim, but what you might be missing is that the exterior posture of the body has an effect on our interior attitude. C.S. Lewis said as much on multiple occasions.
What is in the heart that would move someone to kneel before the Lord?
And what would make one think there is anything wrong with that?
Lets be careful not to make emotional inspiration synonymous with reverence either way.
Faith that fails to inspire reverence is dead. God knows that.
If the congregations kneels when receiving Holy Communion, it would be just as arrogant for a person to stand just as it can be arrogance to kneel when the rest of the congregation stands.
In the United States, the posture that the bishops decided on is standing with a sign of reverence. Yet even the GIRM notes that when receiving kneeling no *other* sign of reverence is needed *and* even dubiums have noted that kneeling for reception of Communion is allowed *plus* Cardinal Arinze, speaking for the Vatican, notes that people should not be called disobedient or "looked down upon" for kneeling in reverence. Sooo--are you now saying that God doesn't love obedience?
Those who kneel when the norm is standing can not be denied Holy Communion, but should be given proper catechesis on why standing is
the norm.
When receiving communion, God doesn't care what other people are doing.A person who loves God with his entire being, will love his fellow man ans well and will not do anything to stand out as being above his fellow man, whether in holiness or social standing.
Both can be done with reverence. There is no problem with any sincere gesture until it becomes a personal initiative not perscribed for by the norms.If the congregations kneels when receiving Holy Communion, it would be just as arrogant for a person to stand just as it can be arrogance to kneel when the rest of the congregation stands.
The Church officially makes allowances for various postures of reverence, i.e.; kneeling or standing and prescribes for kneeling at certain places that in some Churches is ignored and not done at all. None of them are an agenda against anyone else except the ones omitted in disobedience of the GIRM. Thinking that reverence or obedience would be an agenda would be immature and actually, its just the opposite.We worship in communion with our fellow parishioners. We should not do those things which present a self-serving agenda.
My parish stands out because my pastor provides for everyones needs. Standing or kneeling.That's right, don't stand out from the rest.
So its not love to remove altar rails or kneelers for those whose hearts move them to kneel.And faith without love is not faith.
Proper catechesis is that kneeling in reverence is allowed. Remember that even when one receives standing, a sign of reverence *must* be given, the GIRM states that when receiving kneeling *no other* sign of reverence is necessary *and* we have the dubiums that say that it is okay to kneel to receive communion.
It states that other sign is a recommended bow.
How many people who stand do you see bow?
They haven't a clue the Bishops recommend a bow.
All receive standing in our diocese.It states that other sign is a recommended bow.
How many people who stand do you see bow?
They haven't a clue the Bishops recommend a bow.
All receive standing in our diocese.
We were instructed by the Bishop to bow and most do.
Some still genuflect in spite of instructions not to (for safety concerns...people behind them tripping etc).
Proper catechesis is that kneeling in reverence is allowed. Remember that even when one receives standing, a sign of reverence *must* be given, the GIRM states that when receiving kneeling *no other* sign of reverence is necessary *and* we have the dubiums that say that it is okay to kneel to receive communion.
Isn't the line usually moving slow enough to prevent anyone from tripping? I don't mean to be rude but if you run into someone that stops to genuflect when your walking less than 1 MPH you have to really not be paying attention.
It's a very small church, only seats 150 people.
Also, we have six lakes in town which means, we have many people visiting who could be caught off guard when some one decides to genuflect or kneel.
People usually line up within arms reach of the person in front. It can be a hazard for some one approaching communion in quiet reflection and reverence.
Again, why do it if isn't the norm of that parish?
Jim
It does make more sense for smaller parishes, I went to a Spanish Mass at St. Josephs a little earlier here in Norman, it's roughly the same size as your church, and I can see how it can cause problems. But for larger parishes like St. Marks here that seats close to 600 hundred with loads of extra room in the main aisle it wouldn't be an issue. It just seems that this would be a rule thats better applied on a church by church basis rather than a diocese wide level.
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