(Almost) Answering the Problem of Evil

Chriliman · Mar 16, 2016

quatona said:
Ok, you are the other successful attempt, besides Jesus. I guess you just forgot to mention it.

At least you can always tell I'm being sincere in what I say and I always try to be respectful.

Noxot · Mar 18, 2016

Locutus said:
you can when that being is an Omni-everything creator, who planned all that would ever happen. there is no freedom with such a being.

a mystic once said "God the Father only contemplates the seeds of things"

stone sour said "I can fail when I feel the need"

Locutus · Mar 20, 2016

Noxot said:
a mystic once said "God the Father only contemplates the seeds of things"

A mystic may well have done so, but most Christians say that God planned everything.

Noxot · Mar 20, 2016

Locutus said:
A mystic may well have done so, but most Christians say that God planned everything.

is truth democratic in nature?

Noxot · Mar 20, 2016

if God planned everything then only he exist, so he is to blame for sin.

Locutus · Mar 20, 2016

Noxot said:
if God planned everything then only he exist, so he is to blame for sin.

I don't follow. Or rather, you point doesn't follow. If a god planned everything, then there is 'everything'.

Noxot · Mar 20, 2016

Locutus said:
I don't follow. Or rather, you point doesn't follow. If a god planned everything, then there is 'everything'.

if everything is not God then I found a second thing

Murby · Mar 20, 2016

Notedstrangeperson said:
We'll probably be debating for centuries more.

Not by my calculations..
Looking at the numbers for the decline of religion, it would seem that my numbers suggest religion will be about as popular as tarot card readers and fortune tellers in about 50 to 80 years.. I sort of lean on the shorter side as I think the decline will accelerate once it reaches a tipping point.

Locutus · Mar 21, 2016

Murby said:
Not by my calculations..
Looking at the numbers for the decline of religion, it would seem that my numbers suggest religion will be about as popular as tarot card readers and fortune tellers in about 50 to 80 years.. I sort of lean on the shorter side as I think the decline will accelerate once it reaches a tipping point.

there will be a spike in China and other developing nations. they're spiking now because the country is fairly newly 'open', and the people are still impressed by the trappings of the west. they see Christianity the same way they do a Mercedes Benz, or air conditioning. They see it as a western sophistication. Of course being China, they're about 20 years out of date. It won't take long for the children of the newly Christianised generation to twig, though. Then it's game over for the Chinese, too.

Radrook · Mar 22, 2016

One view is that evil is temporarily permitted until the issues which emerged in Eden are resolved to the fullest measure. Once that happens then the temporary permission of evil will have served its purpose and evil will be totally eradicated. If it does re-emerge among mankind it will be immediately removed because allowing its existence will no longer serve the original purpose.

variant · Mar 22, 2016

Notedstrangeperson said:
Anyone who actually bother reading my slightly-overlong post will probably have notice that my argument doesn't actually answer the problem of evil at all: why DOESN'T God take away evil?

My only answer is the same answer that's been given hundreds of times: man has free will, and (as Lactantius suggests) problems can bring us closer to God.

Religion will always be quite good at excusing it's premise by showing us the benefits of evil.

Irony.

The purpose of evil is to have free will and the best thing to do with free will is to give up your free will instead to do the will of God, because freedom to do as you wish is (objectively) bad.

And you people believe this sort of thing....

If as many interpretations of Christianity suggest, that all goodness ultimately comes from God, then there isn't actually a reason to have a co-creative free actor such as myself as I wouldn't be adding anything to the system that wasn't already there.

Noxot · Mar 22, 2016

if religion dies you can be assured it will continue on in the form of statism which is the root of the errors of all forms of governments. have fun with that, it worked out so well for china and russia.

variant · Mar 22, 2016

Noxot said:
if religion dies you can be assured it will continue on in the form of statism which is the root of the errors of all forms of governments. have fun with that, it worked out so well for china and russia.

I think we will always have religion, but I mean that we will always have it's core aspect, in that we will always have people making up imaginary reasons why we should do things in a certain way and act as a cohesive social unit.

Noxot · Mar 22, 2016

oh the games humans play. I just want them to play great games, not lame ones. I try to live by my version of goodness. I think most people try to do such. but usually the worst evils are done in the name of goodness. but...what would we humans even do without all our crazy?

Radrook · Mar 22, 2016

variant said:
Religion will always be quite good at excusing it's premise by showing us the benefits of evil.

Irony.

The purpose of evil is to have free will and the best thing to do with free will is to give up your free will instead to do the will of God, because freedom to do as you wish is (objectively) bad.

And you people believe this sort of thing....

If as many interpretations of Christianity suggest, that all goodness ultimately comes from God, then there isn't actually a reason to have a co-creative free actor such as myself as I wouldn't be adding anything to the system that wasn't already there.

The reason that God is imagined to create creatures in his image isn't because he feels that they add anything that is inherently missing in himself. I was taught that the reason is that he wants to share life with others.

Radrook · Mar 22, 2016

Noxot said:
if God planned everything then only he exist, so he is to blame for sin.

Wouldn't that negate free will? If we tell our children to behave and they don't-how are we to blame?

Noxot · Mar 23, 2016

Radrook said:
Wouldn't that negate free will? If we tell our children to behave and they don't-how are we to blame?

one must begin to understand the depths of reality rather than just assume that the things seen constitute what is primary. free will in a mortal body is hell for an eternal spirit. do you understand that often your supposed "free will" is controlled by various sub-personalities in your brain? that is why you sometimes do things that you hate. have you never tried to stop thinking and then find your brain is automatically thinking thoughts? freedom only comes to those who are to whatever measure connected with their spirit and to God, otherwise a person will be determined from things "without".

a free will does not imply freedom. and the will is only as free as it's capacity allows it to be. free will has to do with the soul. mankind is flesh, soul, and spirit. freedom can give birth to necessity but necessity can not give birth to freedom. freedom is even before being.

if God forces you to do things then it means that it is his problem and not ours. humans think too much like how the fallen reality forces them to think. nature is coercion. we must eat food, we must breath air, ect. if the only reality is nature then all reality is is a bunch of preprogrammed complex patterns.

if God planned everything it means that YOU DON'T EXIST because everything is just an extension of his own freedom.
but like I said before - the Trinity (and understanding the three persons) as a bases for original/primordial reality solves this problem.

original reality was a thing called "spirit" and this universe is but one seed of that ocean of the rest of reality. "invisible things" are more primary than "visible things".

variant · Mar 23, 2016

Radrook said:
The reason that God is imagined to create creatures in his image isn't because he feels that they add anything that is inherently missing in himself. I was taught that the reason is that he wants to share life with others.

My point is that we either add something uniquely good to the system or we serve no purpose.

You seem to agree that our perspective is in and of itself a good.

How exactly can you think "someone to share this with" isn't an addition?

Locutus · Mar 23, 2016

Radrook said:
Wouldn't that negate free will? If we tell our children to behave and they don't-how are we to blame?

Of course you're to blame if your children don't obey you. You made them, and you taught them, and you set up the conditions in which they would 'fail'.

Locutus · Mar 23, 2016

Noxot said:
"invisible things" are more primary than "visible things".

(Almost) Answering the Problem of Evil

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