Alcohol and Dancing

BT said:

It doesn't that is the point (I think).


As for me, I get hammered at least 3 times a week and am a semi-pro break-dancer.

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Good Day, BT

Only 3 times wow what a rookie!

Bill

BT said:

As for me, I get hammered at least 3 times a week and am a semi-pro break-dancer.

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LOL. Bust some moves for us, BT.

Gold Dragon said:

However, alcohol does bring shame to God when...

1) you drink irresponsibly and get drunk
2) your drinking is a stumbling block for others struggling with alcoholism

Both of which I do not do.

You are welcome to feel that drinking is not for you. And I am sympathetic to those like lambslove who are surrounded by victims of reckless drinking and understand their attitudes towards it.

However, other Christians have prayerfully, carefully and honestly looked at all the verses in the bible about alcohol, including the ones you listed and concluded that drinking moderately and responsibly in the proper context is not prohibited. :Cheers:

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I never said that alchol brings shame to God. God said wine is a mocker,Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
Why did God say wine was a mocker? He did not say, IF you get drunk its a mocker. He specifically said wine is a mocker and strong drink is raging because it darkens our reason. There is no wine is a mocker IF you drink it in excess. God is really trying to show us here that it will hurt us in the long run. There is GOOD and GLORY when we are sober minded. We can glorify the Lord with sober minds because our minds and hearts are more powerful, our faith is powerful and glorifies HIM. With a couple of beers in us......we are not glorifying the Lord. We are ignoring the Lord and feeding our own desires.

1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

Wow, that DOES means EVEN coke and TEA!!!!!!!!!! See there, I didn't say it HE did!

Glory be to GOD!!!!!!!!

my bf attends a Baptist church, and they had a dance as a fundraiser... I guess that means they think dancing is ok?

I'm not a Baptist but I was raised Southern Baptist. Personally, I see nothing wrong with alcohol as long as you drink it in moderation. I would also refrain from drinking it if you have a history of alcoholism. As for dancing, I don't see anything wrong with most kinds of dancing. Remember, it was Paul (I think) that recommended that Timothy drink a little wine for his stomach.

[bible]1 Timothy 5:23[/bible]

[bible]Ecclesiastes 3:4[/bible]

[bible]Jeremiah 31:4[/bible]

[bible]Jeremiah 31:13[/bible]

I guess this is how conservative I am, but even when I go to places that serve alcohol, not bars mind you, since I don't go to them, but places like Red Lobster, Appleby's and so forth, I frown on people drinking "virgin" drinks. Particularly Christians drinking virgin drinks. Why? Because for the person you may know who enters the same restuarant and sees you drinking something that looks like an alcoholic drink has no idea that it isn't. It still appears to them you are drinking something alcoholic and alot of lost people in the world like to hold that against Christians who partake of any drink with alcohol in it. It could still be a stumbling block.

I have alot of friends who like to do the party scene, get drunk and all that, so drinking for me in any situation is out of the question. I can't be a stumbling block for them and I'm not going to give them the opportunity to say, "hey I thought you were a Christian, why you drinking?" That is used alot where I live.

As for the church it is in our bylaws that the pastor cannot partake of any wine as given in the qualifications of being an overseer in 1st Timothy 3:3. Also our church is full, praise God, of ex alcoholics and drug addicts, so it would be kind of stupid on our part to offer wine, albeit small, to probably a hundred people who struggled with it before.

As for dancing, it has never been brought up in our church as something we can or cannot do. It's just understood that no one comes to church and gets their freak on. We do interpretive movements which is a form of dance, but not really. But usually when someone mentions dancing the first vision to some is that of "bumping and grinding" which I think not only looks foolish, but can lead to other things as well. But on the other hand I truly believe we can dance for the Lord. We all know David did.

I suppose we just have to take into careful consideration of 1st Corinthians 10:31, "Therefore, whatever you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God."

BTW, there are alot of people I agreed with after reading the posts, GEL, and BT you are two of them and I can't remember the rest. I really support what you guys are saying, but BT, if you are going to be serious about drinking and partying, do it more than 3 times a week man! C'mon don't be weak!

hmmm, dancing is something I have a little contention with. I personally like it, i think its great exercise and a brilliant way to enjoy yourself. Of course that to me does not include 'lude' dancing, the type of stuff that is 'sexually connotated'... however i think verses that are used to 'promote' dancing from the old testament aren't appropraite because as far as i know all types of dancing mentioned in the OT (in the positive) are males only or females only, not the partenered dancing that we have today...

Drinking alcohol, yeah okay, there is no verse that says you should drink alcoholic beverages and no verse that says you shouldn't... Okay I know the 'drink a little wine for your stomach' but that is only medical, it doesn't say 'drink a little wine when you're thirsty'... I personally am not against drinking a little alcohol (not getting drunk!) as long as it doesn't cause any one else to stumble...

My views, enjoy and God Bless!!!

GreenEyedLady said:

Lux,
From what I understand the reason why wine is NOT used in communion is because it is fermented, meaning it is not of the first fruits of the vine, but aged wine. Whenever God dealt with sacrifices it was always something unspotted. He always retained the first fruits of everything. Fermented wine is not a first fruit but a by product of something old and used.
Its not about not having alchol in the church, there is a deeper meaning to this. Please my brothers and sister, feel free to correct me or elaborate more on this for Lux.
GEL
Ps. As far as dancing goes, the deeper reason why dancing is a no-no is because it glorifies the body or ones body, not GOD.

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Growing up Episcopal, we always used wine for communion... It was a bit of a change when I took communion at the Baptist church we are now attending and discovered grape juice in place of wine. I was always curious about it... But have never asked the question. I just assumed that it was to keep alcohol out of church... And even heard that it was to allow alcoholics to take communion without any risk of temptation. Thanks for the further explination! God Bless!

Oh... And my personal opinion as someone who has only been attending a Baptist church for a couple of years... I personally believe that having a glass of wine on occasion with dinner. And although I am not much of a dancer (yes... I have 2 left feet it seems...) I will dance a bit with my wife to keep her happy, since she really enjoys dancing. Usually just in the living room... Although we did dance one time out at the park that I proposed to her in, barefoot in the grass one night... But it was dark, so no one could see! It was VERY romantic...

LuxPerpetua said:

Just curious here, and certainly not to debate, but I was wondering why Baptists object to these things? I can certainly understand not approving of getting drunk or MTV-style dancing, but I'm honestly curious as to why Baptists object to using alcohol in communion (or moderate consumption of alcohol at home), as well as to, let's say, ballroom-style dancing. I'm especially interested in the communion issue since Baptists are the only denom I know of that does this (although there are probably others, but *I* just don't know about them).

Thanks!

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I think that a lot of people are scared that these two things (dancing and drinking) could lead to something worse. I go to a Christian university where those two things are rules and that's the reason.

12volt_man said:

So what about the vast, vast majority of people who drink and dance and don't do these things?

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You're right, not everyone does. But what about the people who do? Don't you care enough about them to give up a little selfish pleasure for their sake? You don't HAVE to go drinking and dancing in bars, and being seen doing those can really ding your witness to others.

I dare you to get drunk in a bar and then try to tell people that Jesus saves. Or just drink in a bar and then try to tell them that Jesus can remove all the temptation to get drunk.

I say, if you can't imagine evangelizing in a situation, you ought not put yourself in that situation.

When He had called the multitude to Himself He said to them:''Hear and understand : Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man'' Matthew 15: 10,11 (NKJV)


So Jesus said: ''Are you still without understanding? Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart and they defile a man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, false witness, blasphemies.'' Matthew 15 : 17-19 (NKJV)

Just a thought...

Thorn

BT said:

Another reason for the use of juice that is more practical has to do with the possibility of recovering alcoholics in the body. If you were to give one of these people a small taste of wine it could really be a stumbling block...

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Whoever the Son sets free is free indeed.

I think that applies more to the Bible Baptist Churches... My sister and I we both raised in a "regular" Baptist Church... Dancing was allowed, as far as alcohol, I know we had church family that would have wine or a drink for occasions or in their homes.... My sister now goes to a Bible Baptist Church and I have a very close friend who also grew up in the same type of Baptist Church and they are against dancing and alcohol.... In fact, I was in NY with my sister and her family this summer and while we were at the NY State Fair the Oakridge Boys were playing there like they have done for many years and I was holding the hands of my little 3 year old nephew and he was dancing with me.... You know how we "dance" with little kids... My sister commented that she hoped no one from her church saw her in the company of her dancing sister!!! It's not all Baptist... Dancing is in the Bible - 2 Samuel 6:12-23, Exodus 15, Psalms 150, Luke 15:22-27, Matthew 14:1-12.. Of course, not mtv dancing.... Just my thoughts....

Angie

First off, "Baptists" today are not at all uniform with each other. The doctrine of Liberty of Conscience has been taken to an extreme it wasn't meant for, and that's why Baptists churches swing so wide. You never no what to expect.

About Drinking.....

This isn't really a Baptist thing. The idea of complete abstinence from alcohol in Baptists churches is only a little over a hundred years old.

This idea came around during the temperence movement of the 1800s. The Methodists used to be in on it too, but it continued longer with the Baptists than it did with them.

Before that Baptist have had no objection to alcohol, so long as you don't get drunk.

At Particular Atonement (strict Reformed) Baptists and Primitive Baptists Churches they use wine in communion. At the RB back home they don't believe it is right to use grape juice. These churches uphold Baptist traditions from the 1600s and 1700s. Their members even use wine in their homes at celebrations. "All things in moderation."

Before any of you start to get upset remember, Jesus provided the wine at the wedding party at Cana.


About Dancing.......

This is much older, but I really don't know of any normal Baptist churches that still object to dancing.

Abstinance from dancing is a Puritan idea that held over in the denominations that descended from Puritanism (prebyterians, congregationalist, and baptists) at least into the late 1800s.

Baptists did keep this idea a little longer than the other two, but now it is pretty much not even considered.

Something else, NOT ALL dancing was discouraged. Dancing can be a form of worship. Read Bunyan; he spoke of dancing as worship, as did other of his Puritan brethren.

The dancing that is shunned is what was called "promiscuious dancing", that is dancing with a partner.

For much of this kind of dancing it was thought that men and women took too much liberty with each other's bodies.

However, still not even all of this was discouraged.

Cromwell allowed English Country dancing (the kind you see in the movies based on Jane Austen Novels, like Emma and Sense and Sensibility).

The Pilgrims had dancing at one of their early celebrations for passage to America (not at Thanksgiving).

Just as another note, RBs and PBs still discourage what they consider vulgar dancing.

I look at dancing as a way to glorify yourself. Now what kinda dancing are we talking about here? You mean dancing the way David danced out of PURE joy of the Lord?
Does this dancing involve nightclubs?
WHat kinda dancing is OK and what is not as far as the dancing that DOES NOT glorify GOd as David did.
GEL

Dancing, drinking, eating, wearing clothes, sex, music, earning money, telling jokes, playing sport .....

...these are all things which are a natural part of life on earth, and all of them have come under some condemnation at some time or another from a variety of sources, most-often underpinned by some or other religious zeal. But in almost every instrance, there has been an ulterior agenda hidden under a sometimes very well-constructed veneer of 'Godliness'.
And these are all things which if done in the proper manner, with the right frame of mind, and keeping the right perspective - the will and purpose of the Lord, can be good, positive, enjoyable things.

Take them out of the context of true obedience and submission to the Lord, and any one of them can become a damaging, negative, unhealthy, and ultimately bad thing. How many marriages have been ruined by an unhealthy addiction to Saturday sport?

LuxPerpetua said:

But all reject wine for use in communion, right?

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Why use wine and not grape juice?

Dancing is only exceptable if used in worship. At my church we use grape juice for communion and it works just fine.

Lucky_Skunk said:

Why use wine and not grape juice?

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Our LORD used wine. Why not use it?