Alcohol and Dancing

ZiSunka · Sep 17, 2004

No, it's more like banning porno magazines because some people use them to sin against themselves and their wives.

If you think that dancing and drinking don't lead to extra marital sex, you've never been inside a bar after midnight. That's when people start to pair up for going home to bed. It's the drinking that reduces their inhibitions and dancing that helps them decide who their bed partner is going to be.

SumTinWong · Sep 17, 2004

I think for me personally it is an issue of conscience. I won't go to a bar because i don't want to be around the element that hangs out in bars. People might say, yeah but Jesus would have gone in there and evangelized, to which I would respond, I aint Jesus. Jesus never had a problem with peer pressure, alcohol, or lust. I am saved by the grace of God, and I do have the Holy Spirit guiding me and keeping me from repeating the same errors, but I also remember the statement, thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

I suppose if you never had those problems your conscience might be clear and then it would be okay. For me, a beer every once in a great while is about all I am willing to have.

I don't go to "meat markets" better known as bars because I am a happily married man. Why or what reason do I have to be there?

Gold Dragon · Sep 17, 2004

lambslove said:
If you think that dancing and drinking don't lead to extra marital sex, you've never been inside a bar after midnight. That's when people start to pair up for going home to bed. It's the drinking that reduces their inhibitions and dancing that helps them decide who their bed partner is going to be.

I'm cool with people who feel this way but many others do not have a problem with this.

I've been in bars and clubs after midnight and have never experienced this. Of course I always go in relatively large groups who control their drinking, hang out, talk, dance, have some fun and then we go home as a group. It isn't all that different from hanging out at a ball game or a restaurant.

Those who go to bars and clubs looking for extra marital sex will find it. Those who don't go looking for that, won't.

I should add that I don't want my activities to be a stumbling block and justify to a anyone who struggles with alcholism, extra-marital sex, etc to think that it is ok for them to go to such places. If I knew it would be a stumbling block, I wouldn't go for the sake of that person.

LuxPerpetua · Sep 17, 2004

Busybee said:
Wow, that SBC you got married at sounds more like a Church of Christ. COC have communion weekly and they never use alcohol either. They also don't believe in dancing at all. As well as no musical instruments of any kind in church.

Actually, all of the SBC churches I went to in the south were like this, so I don't think it was just that particular church. In case you're curious, here is the link to the church that I grew up in and was married in: http://www.fbcj.org. It's really a fabulous church, but I just never quite understood some of the cultural practices (like no drinking in moderation, no dancing, etc.) but you all are helping me to get a better grasp on Baptist practice. Thanks.

seebs · Sep 17, 2004

lambslove said:
No, it's more like banning porno magazines because some people use them to sin against themselves and their wives.

If you think that dancing and drinking don't lead to extra marital sex, you've never been inside a bar after midnight. That's when people start to pair up for going home to bed. It's the drinking that reduces their inhibitions and dancing that helps them decide who their bed partner is going to be.

My wife likes to go out clubbing; believe me, I've seen this happen, because I've been in a lot of clubs until after midnight, or until they closed, or whatever.

But I don't think drinking and dancing have any causal relationship at all with what happens. These people are out looking to hook up. If they couldn't drink and couldn't dance, they'd go out to do something else, and find partners anyway. It has nothing to do with drinking and dancing; they'll make up other ways to display plumage if dancing isn't available.

But... Meanwhile, my wife and I can go out to the club, and, guess what, not have extramarital sex.

Dancing does not make us suddenly want to sleep with other people. Dancing is a recreational activity.

The people who are out cruising for sex are not innocent bystanders who had decided that extramarital sex was wrong, but then they went dancing and suddenly an evil dancing spirit made them have sex. They are people who went out with the specific intent of getting laid, and figured a club full of like-minded singles was a good place to go looking.

ZiSunka · Sep 17, 2004

Gold Dragon said:
I'm cool with people who feel this way but many others do not have a problem with this.

I've been in bars and clubs after midnight and have never experienced this. Of course I always go in relatively large groups who control their drinking, hang out, talk, dance, have some fun and then we go home as a group. It isn't all that different from hanging out at a ball game or a restaurant.

Those who go to bars and clubs looking for extra marital sex will find it. Those who don't go looking for that, won't.

I should add that I don't want my activities to be a stumbling block and justify to a Christian who struggles with alcholism, extra-marital sex, etc to think that it is ok for them to go to such places.

I don't have a problem with it either, but we chose to NOT be a stumbling block to others who do have a problem with it.

Back in college, I saw a lot of my friends do really stupid stuff when they got drunk, really stupid life-threatening stuff. Even within the last few years, I saw one of my friends in her thirties, a Christian, destroy her life by taking up drinking. My grandfather suffered dimentia the last 10 years of his life from drinking. A neighbor of mine lost his life in a car accident after someone who only had two beers rammed his truck into him as he was crossing the street on the way to the park. A friend of my ex-husband paid child support for 18 years after getting a little loose with his morals after an evening in a bar.

There are so many ways to hurt yourself and others after a little drinking that it isn't even something Christians should think about. Having a little wine for your health before bedtime is one thing. Drinking for recreation is something else altogether.

That's why Christians ought not go to bars, so they can avoid the temptation or occassion to sin.

ZiSunka · Sep 17, 2004

seebs said:
My wife likes to go out clubbing; believe me, I've seen this happen, because I've been in a lot of clubs until after midnight, or until they closed, or whatever.

But I don't think drinking and dancing have any causal relationship at all with what happens. These people are out looking to hook up. If they couldn't drink and couldn't dance, they'd go out to do something else, and find partners anyway. It has nothing to do with drinking and dancing; they'll make up other ways to display plumage if dancing isn't available.

But... Meanwhile, my wife and I can go out to the club, and, guess what, not have extramarital sex.

Dancing does not make us suddenly want to sleep with other people. Dancing is a recreational activity.

The people who are out cruising for sex are not innocent bystanders who had decided that extramarital sex was wrong, but then they went dancing and suddenly an evil dancing spirit made them have sex. They are people who went out with the specific intent of getting laid, and figured a club full of like-minded singles was a good place to go looking.

You have a built-in sex partner. Many people who go to bars don't. These are the vulnerable people. The alcohol reduces their inhibitions and they end up doing stupid things. Do they do it because of the alcohol? Yes. Do they do alcohol to give themselves an excuse to do it? Yes.

Gold Dragon · Sep 17, 2004

lambslove said:
I don't have a problem with it either, but we chose to NOT be a stumbling block to others who do have a problem with it.

Back in college, I saw a lot of my friends do really stupid stuff when they got drunk, really stupid life-threatening stuff. Even within the last few years, I saw one of my friends in her thirties, a Christian, destroy her life by taking up drinking. My grandfather suffered dimentia the last 10 years of his life from drinking. A neighbor of mine lost his life in a car accident after someone who only had two beers rammed his truck into him as he was crossing the street on the way to the park. A friend of my ex-husband paid child support for 18 years after getting a little loose with his morals after an evening in a bar.

There are so many ways to hurt yourself and others after a little drinking that it isn't even something Christians should think about. Having a little wine for your health before bedtime is one thing. Drinking for recreation is something else altogether.

That's why Christians ought not go to bars, so they can avoid the temptation or occassion to sin.

I respect your decision in this matter lambslove and agree that irresponsible use of alcohol can really mess up lives.

Busybee · Sep 17, 2004

You have a built-in sex partner. Many people who go to bars don't. These are the vulnerable people. The alcohol reduces their inhibitions and they end up doing stupid things. Do they do it because of the alcohol? Yes. Do they do alcohol to give themselves an excuse to do it? Yes.

lambslove said it very well. I personally have no problem with drinking in moderation, although I choose not to drink at all because I hate the way it makes me feel. It gets a bit tricky though when speaking about public drinking. If a Christian or unbeliever sees one of us out drinking even a sip, will it be a stumbling block to them? Will it hurt your witness? Alot of times the answer is yes. Also, alcohol definitely makes people less inhibited.

Dancing among single people, like lambslove said, is where theres tons of room for lust, especially since they have no spouse to alleviate any built up desires.

I think culturally, that with exotic dancing coming to the scenes so strong, that's another thing that has made dancing so taboo (sorry if too strong a word, I'm sleep deprived and couldn't think of another

) . Speaking from experience, I know that alcohol, drugs, and exotic dancing go hand in hand and that's simply to lower inhibitions.

GreenEyedLady · Sep 17, 2004

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

I believe with all my heart that drinking is NOT good for a christian.

Proverbs 31:4-5 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

Why did God say wine is a mocker??? Well just look what happened there in Isaiah. The whole point is.....WHY do you drink? How can drinking a strong drink be glory?

Isaiah 28:7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

I am posting these verses because God convicted me awhile ago about drinking and how it was wrong for me and my family. Anything we do in moderation our children will do in excess. The same goes for a church, whatever the pastor does, the congregation will do in excess.
So.........No drinking for me or my family.
I just have one question about those who are ok with drinking in moderation.
In what way does drinking glorify God?

Busybee · Sep 17, 2004

Whew have you given some food for thought Green. Although I don't drink, I'm an "in moderation person" and your post has certainly brought some prospective to me. Especially the following question "In what way does drinking glorify God?" I'm definitely going to take this to the Lord in prayer. Thanks for the verses as well!!

Gold Dragon · Sep 17, 2004

GreenEyedLady said:
I just have one question about those who are ok with drinking in moderation.
In what way does drinking glorify God?

The same way that drinking Coke, OJ and water glorify God. They don't. It isn't what you drink that brings glory to God, but how you drink it.

Daniel and the crew brought glory to God by drinking water and eating vegetables. Does that mean drinking water and eating vegetables always brings glory to God and doing otherwise doesn't? It was their obedience to God that brought God glory, not what they ate or drank.

However, alcohol does bring shame to God when...

1) you drink irresponsibly and get drunk
2) your drinking is a stumbling block for others struggling with alcoholism

Both of which I do not do.

You are welcome to feel that drinking is not for you. And I am sympathetic to those like lambslove who are surrounded by victims of reckless drinking and understand their attitudes towards it.

However, other Christians have prayerfully, carefully and honestly looked at all the verses in the bible about alcohol, including the ones you listed and concluded that drinking moderately and responsibly in the proper context is not prohibited. :Cheers:

BBAS 64 · Sep 17, 2004

GreenEyedLady said:
Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

I believe with all my heart that drinking is NOT good for a christian.

Proverbs 31:4-5 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

Why did God say wine is a mocker??? Well just look what happened there in Isaiah. The whole point is.....WHY do you drink? How can drinking a strong drink be glory?

Isaiah 28:7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

I am posting these verses because God convicted me awhile ago about drinking and how it was wrong for me and my family. Anything we do in moderation our children will do in excess. The same goes for a church, whatever the pastor does, the congregation will do in excess.
So.........No drinking for me or my family.
I just have one question about those who are ok with drinking in moderation.
In what way does drinking glorify God?

Good Day, Gel

I am not going to debate "your" convictions here that is not the purpose of this post, nor will I say that some ones lack of the same convictions as yours are wrong.

I do have one question though and I will not reply to your answer as it will stand as "your" understanding.

How does drinking coke,juice,water,coffee,tea glorify God? I would ask that you be as particular in your answer as you can be.

Peace to u,

Bill

ZiSunka · Sep 17, 2004

Gold Dragon said:
However, alcohol does bring shame to God when...

1) you drink irresponsibly and get drunk
2) your drinking is a stumbling block for others struggling with alcoholism

Both of which I do not do.

However, other Christians have prayerfully, carefully and honestly looked at all the verses in the bible about alcohol, including the ones you listed and concluded that drinking moderately and responsibly in the proper context is not prohibited. :Cheers:

You may be surrounded by people with alcohol problems and not even know it. A lot of born-agains got born-again because they needed God to help them escape from alcoholism. That person next to you in church might be an AA member, or trying to go it alone in getting and staying sober. It's for the sake of those people that I abstain, so as not to present alcohol as a recreational thing that is fun and desirable to someone who can't tolerate even one drink.

It's compassion for the unknown alcoholics that I abstain. You should prayerfully consider it, too. Your drinking may affect people other than yourself.

You're right, it's not prohibited, but compassion for your struggling brothers and sisters in Christ is required.

Gold Dragon · Sep 17, 2004

lambslove said:
It's compassion for the unknown alcoholics that I abstain. You should prayerfully consider it, too. Your drinking may affect people other than yourself.

You're right, it's not prohibited, but compassion for your struggling brothers and sisters in Christ is required.

Thanks for the reminder, lambslove. I'll prayerfully keep that in mind.

Melbelle · Sep 17, 2004

I have a friend who is getting married tomorrow who was born and raised in my Babtist church and her soon to be husband also born and raised in my church and are haveing danceing on ther wedding and in my church fellowship hall. Now I want be danceing simply cus my husband want be there with me.

sunshinejennii · Sep 17, 2004

Around here Baptists drink and Dance just as much as any other Christians, obviously there is variation among Christians but its not by denomination.

Having said that we still don't have wine in church, why? to be respectful for those who don't drink, either for purely biblical reasons or because they used to be alcoholics. Also we have youngish people taking communion and grape juice is cheaper! LOL nah I'm not sure the exact reasoning that my church in general has taken but I can fully understand the decision not to have alcohol in church. For one we aren't licensed!

In terms of dancing we regularly have barn dances, christian gigs(though i suppose thats more jumping and sweat), and we have a Performing arts company that includes dance!

12volt_man · Sep 17, 2004

lambslove said:
I'm not a baptist, I'm an anabaptist, but the reason that dancing and drinking are frowned upon are that they so easily promote immorality. Dancing and drinking in a bar often lead to extra-marital sex, and even dancing alone can lead to bad decisions.

Huh?

The point of dancing in today's culture is to attract and arouse the opposite sex, so it's frowned upon.

I have to be honest with you, I play in bars all the time and I dance a lot. I have no idea what you're talking about. Among the people I know and come into contact with, dancing is just for fun.

Maybe you're just hanging out with a bad crowd?

12volt_man · Sep 17, 2004

lambslove said:
No, it's more like banning porno magazines because some people use them to sin against themselves and their wives.

If you think that dancing and drinking don't lead to extra marital sex, you've never been inside a bar after midnight. That's when people start to pair up for going home to bed. It's the drinking that reduces their inhibitions and dancing that helps them decide who their bed partner is going to be.

So what about the vast, vast majority of people who drink and dance and don't do these things?

BT · Sep 17, 2004

BBAS 64 said:
Good Day, Gel

I am not going to debate "your" convictions here that is not the purpose of this post, nor will I say that some ones lack of the same convictions as yours are wrong.

I do have one question though and I will not reply to your answer as it will stand as "your" understanding.

How does drinking coke,juice,water,coffee,tea glorify God? I would ask that you be as particular in your answer as you can be.

Peace to u,

Bill

It doesn't that is the point (I think).

As for me, I get hammered at least 3 times a week and am a semi-pro break-dancer.

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