Age of Earth

Codeman · Sep 9, 2004

Could it be, then, that the Spirit is allowing us to be fully at peace with these differing interpretations because it makes no difference to the ultimate message of God's Word - the Salvation message - which interpretation is used?

I agree, but I am curious anyway.

herev · Sep 9, 2004

In Christ Forever said:
So do you believe in God, His Son and the Holy Spirit? Do you believe Christ died on the cross, rose from the dead and ascended into heaven?. Do you believe the Bible is the inerrant Words of God, written by man through the Spirit of God Himself?

Does this mean you're not going to explain your post?
But, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes
As to the last one, I believe the Bible is inspired by God and points to the Word of God. I believe we do not have access to the writers, the orignial manuscripts, or to any priviledged knowledge to tell us what is innerant. I believe that everything in the Bible is true--I do not believe that everything in the Bible is fact.
Now--your turn? Finally?

herev · Sep 9, 2004

Vance said:
Could it be, then, that the Spirit is allowing us to be fully at peace with these differing interpretations because it makes no difference to the ultimate message of God's Word - the Salvation message - which interpretation is used?

In Christ Forever · Sep 9, 2004

herev said:
Does this mean you're not going to explain your post?
But, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes
As to the last one, I believe the Bible is inspired by God and points to the Word of God. I believe we do not have access to the writers, the orignial manuscripts, or to any priviledged knowledge to tell us what is innerant. I believe that everything in the Bible is true--I do not believe that everything in the Bible is fact.
Now--your turn? Finally?

If you don't believe everything in the bible is "fact"[depends on what you mean by fact], then I can't help you. The bible is spiritually written, so it has to be read in the Spirit.
One day just sit down, erase from your mind everything you have ever learned about the bible, pick a quiet time, pray to God for wisdom and knowledge of His words, get a good bible [I love the NIV myself and Young's LT or even the NKJV], then spend an hour or more a day with it and read only that BOOK.
Peace and grace to you through God the Father.

One can't be but awed by the words of God!!!!

reve 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 "that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all [people,] free and slave, both small and great." 19

Ezekiel 39:8 "Surely it is coming, and it shall be done," says the Lord GOD. "This [is] the day of which I have spoken. 13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says the Lord GOD. 15 "The search party will pass through the land; and [when anyone] sees a man's bone, he shall set up a marker by it, till the buriers have buried it in the Valley of Hamon Gog. 17 " And as for you, son of man, thus says the Lord GOD, 'Speak to every sort of bird and to every beast of the field: "Assemble yourselves and come; Gather together from all sides to My sacrificial meal Which I am sacrificing for you, A great sacrificial meal on the mountains of Israel, That you may eat flesh and drink blood. 18 You shall eat the flesh of the mighty, Drink the blood of the princes of the earth, Of rams and lambs, Of goats and bulls, All of them fatlings of Bashan. . 21 " I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them.

herev · Sep 9, 2004

In Christ Forever said:
If you don't believe everything in the bible is fact, then I can't help you. One day just sit down, erase from your mind everything you have ever learned about the bible, pick a quiet time, pray to God for wisdom and knowledge of His words, get a good bible [I love the NIV myself and Young's LT or even the NKJV], then spend an hour or more a day with it and read only that BOOK.
Peace and grace to you through God the Father.

And yet, I'll bet you that you don't beleive everything in the Bible is fact, either...

But since your post that I was asking about had to do with some math--and relating two things--how hard is it to say, "this is what I meant?"

Please do not make the mistake of assuming that I do not spend time in studying Scripture, or that I do not read to understand God's will, etc.

My theology and my doctrine of scriptures comes from many years of reading, searching, studying, praying, discussing, and evaluating.

Why is it that creationists just can't accept that?

Why is it that the assumption is always made that if I'd just pray for guidance, or if I'd just open my heart, etc--that I'd be cured of this evil TE nonsense?

Is it blindness,

a spirit of condemnation,

is there a holier-than-thou flu going around,

or is it just that you really do think you are the only ones listening to God?

Nevermind on answering the original question--I'm not interested anymore.

herev · Sep 9, 2004

Good night all, going to dream land where things make more sense than here tonight!

Vance · Sep 10, 2004

"One day just sit down, erase from your mind everything you have ever learned about the bible, pick a quiet time, pray to God for wisdom and knowledge of His words, get a good bible [I love the NIV myself and Young's LT or even the NKJV], then spend an hour or more a day with it and read only that BOOK."

And why is it that you assume we have not, and do not still, do that?

What exactly is it that makes Creationists think that somehow they are the only Christains who read the Bible with full engagement, with the Spirit's guidance and will complete awe and reverence? There is a great deal of spiritual arrogance in this whole attitude and it amazes me every time how common it is among Creationists.

I honestly am coming to believe that the only thing that keeps them hanging on the YEC'ism in the face of the overwhelming evidence from God's Creation, is that it, for some odd reason, makes them feel as if they are the ones closer to God, more in tune with the Spirit and less "of the World". Complete nonsense, of course, but I am coming to think that they not only believe this, but that they tell each other this in Church in a kind of spiritual "group hug".

I think that they would honestly be shocked to their core to realize that there are Christians who accept evolution and a non-literal reading of Scripture and are just as Spirit-led as they are, just as spiritually-minded as they are, just as in love with the Scripture and overwhelmed by its power and God's Grace as they are.

Maybe if they ever come to truly realize this, things would be much, much different.

Vance · Sep 10, 2004

Codeman said:
um...I didn't have to read it, this theory of things evolving into better organisms, etc. has been taught to me my entire highschool and college life.

Then you had very, very poor teachers all the way through your education. If you had done some reading on your own, then you would know that evolution does not contend that things get "better and better".

pressingon · Sep 10, 2004

And I wonder why TE's have such a hard time taking most creationists seriously....

Come on, "In Christ Forever" and "Codeman", if you want your viewpoints to be respected or considered seriously, you're gonna have to rethink your approaches a bit.

Some suggestions:
-- Be open to learning about the other viewpoints so you can better understand those with whom you argue.
-- Fully explain your arguments in a way that is easily understood.
-- Tailor your arguments to the audience with whom you're trying to communicate.
-- NEVER claim that your viewpoint is the direct revelation of God through the Holy Spirit (even if it is true and you are 100% confident of that fact)... it's offensive to the reader who disagrees, who may also believe that he/she has been led by God's Holy Spirit to truth, to tell them that they are not in touch with God. And that's not to mention the Biblical consequences if it turns out that you're wrong....

Anyway, I know what I've written seems a little harsh. Maybe it sounds to you as if I'm telling you to water down the fervency your beliefs and your arguments. Neither of these are intended. I'm simply interested in seeing this forum become a productive place where TE's and YEC's can gain a better understanding of each other's viewpoints, where maybe, just maybe... we can all learn truth.

God bless....

Vance · Sep 10, 2004

Very useful comments.

herev · Sep 10, 2004

herev said:
And yet, I'll bet you that you don't beleive everything in the Bible is fact, either...

I guess he didn't want to bet?

Vance · Sep 10, 2004

Gambling is a sin. Especially when you know you will lose the bet. :0)

herev · Sep 10, 2004

Vance said:
Gambling is a sin. Especially when you know you will lose the bet. :0)

Yeh, but if I'm in hell for being a TE, what difference does it make?

Codeman · Sep 11, 2004

Then you had very, very poor teachers all the way through your education. If you had done some reading on your own, then you would know that evolution does not contend that things get "better and better".

So teach me- no one else here seems to be able to.

Come on, "In Christ Forever" and "Codeman", if you want your viewpoints to be respected or considered seriously, you're gonna have to rethink your approaches a bit.

Just because I lean in that direction doesn't mean I can explain it, that is why I posted in the frist place, to get some info. Thanx for all the info, (sarcastically).

I don't mean to be a jerk, but I haven't been answered at all, all I have seen is useless bickering.

gluadys · Sep 12, 2004

Codeman said:
ok...new thoughts- What do you think about the model of creationism verses evolution concerning the yec and old earth theories? ( I am talking about the two graphs side by side- the evo one implicating that the universe is evolving better and better[/], and the other that the earth is getting tired.) I think the creationism model make perfect sense, just from making some quick ovservations on common things.

First error: Evolution is not about the universe; it is about living species on earth.

Second error: Evolution is not about getting better and better; it is about surviving in one's environment and when necessary adapting to a new environment.

I don't know what you mean by the earth getting tired.

As for which makes more sense, it depends what criteria you are judging it by. Scientifically creationism makes no sense at all, and evolution makes a lot of sense. But if you are measuring by a different standard than science you could well come to the opposite conclusion.

gluadys · Sep 12, 2004

Codeman said:
Then you had very, very poor teachers all the way through your education. If you had done some reading on your own, then you would know that evolution does not contend that things get "better and better".

So teach me- no one else here seems to be able to.

Come on, "In Christ Forever" and "Codeman", if you want your viewpoints to be respected or considered seriously, you're gonna have to rethink your approaches a bit.

Just because I lean in that direction doesn't mean I can explain it, that is why I posted in the frist place, to get some info. Thanx for all the info, (sarcastically).

I don't mean to be a jerk, but I haven't been answered at all, all I have seen is useless bickering.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I thought the thread started off well. I realize it got sidetracked, but not by you.

I don't see any questions you asked that weren't answered, but if you feel we have skipped something important, please do ask again.

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