Age of Accountability?

ClementofRome · Sep 28, 2005

reformedfan said:
what i've heard on thast is that unlike Passover, people taking it in an unworthy manner (unable to sufficiently examine themselves, they mean, e.g. kids) eat & drink damnation onto themselves, which is how they rationalize it.

I understand that they apply 1 Corinthians to the situation with the children, but there must be more. If there is not more, it is flawed from an out of context basis alone, not to mention the other theology that has been presented above in support of paedocommunion. I would like to hear someone who holds to fencing the table from children defend the practice without incorrectly applying the passage from 1 Cor.

reformedfan · Sep 28, 2005

yeah i would too. The elders in my church examine anyone prior to communion that is from a diff church, to make sure they have a credible testimony as well as mem'ship in Christ's church somewhere.

So Christians that aren't members of some denom, Christians in rebellion, heathens, & MY KIDS aren't allowed to take communion cuz....kids must fall into one of those categories: oh yeah! They aren't members of Christ's church, yeah, that's it!! & they can't become members cuz....yikes, then they'd hafta let them take communion! Oh man, what would that unleash?!?! Kids would then fall over dead for taking communion in an unworthy manner, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......*looks for furious smiley*

Imblessed · Sep 28, 2005

I have to admit, this thread took me by suprise, because I had assumed that all paedobaptists would allow their children to take communion. Interesting that this is not the case.....

reformedfan · Sep 28, 2005

i dunno if 'interesting' is the right word, though. 'infuriating', mebbe?

Augustine_Was_Calvinist · Sep 28, 2005

reformedfan said:
what i've heard on thast is that unlike Passover, people taking it in an unworthy manner (unable to sufficiently examine themselves, they mean, e.g. kids) eat & drink damnation onto themselves, which is how they rationalize it.

The problem with that rationalization is they take the Corinthian problem out of context.

It has nothing to do with children receiving the elements unworthily. Paul was addressing a specific problem with Corinthians who were abusing the elements in gluttony and drunkenness.

That passage in now way justifies barring covenant children from the Lord's Table.

reformedfan · Sep 28, 2005

that's what i thought!! Would 'being a heathen' fit under that?

but, as strict RPW types, what choice do we have?

Augustine_Was_Calvinist · Sep 28, 2005

I've been considering the Free Presbyterians. I think they don't discourage covenant children from the Lord's Table.

reformedfan · Sep 28, 2005

Augustine_Was_Calvinist said:
I've been considering the Free Presbyterians. I think they don't discourage covenant children from the Lord's Table.

what are they "free" from?

Augustine_Was_Calvinist · Sep 28, 2005

reformedfan said:
what are they "free" from?

The Crown of England.

reformedfan · Sep 28, 2005

oh, ok. LIke free methodists are wildly liberal, aren't they? 'free from oversight' isn't what free presbys are?

i wonder if there are any around here, i never heard of them. I'll look 'em up on the internet

kw5kw · Sep 28, 2005

This thread is about "Age of Accountability"

There is a presedent:

Remember Moses sent Joshua, Caleb and the other 10 spies out to spy out the Promised Land? Well they went out and and spied out the land and 10 came back and said to the effect that 'you're crazy, we can't go in there, these people are BIG and the cities have BIG walls and we just can't.' Joshua and Caleb, however said they could.

Well, God got upset with their defiance, because He had told them not to worry, that He would clear the way for them. So in Numbers 14 we see that God told them that they had to suffer. That the people were so 'stiff-necked' that they would rather return to Egypt than go forward with God leading them.

And now, you ask, "What does this have to do with the price of tea in China(Age of Accountablity)?" I'll tell you.

So what was God's punishment? That's right 40 years of wondering in the desert. Why? So that they wondered 1 year for each... well let me post the verses... Numbers Chapter 14:

Num 14:26 And the LORD spoke unto Moses and unto Aaron saying,

Num 14:27 How long shallIbearwith this evil congregation, which murmur against me? I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel, which they murmur against me.

Num 14:28 Say unto them, Astrulyas I live, saith the LORD, as ye have spoken in mine ears, so will I do to you:

Num 14:29 Your carcasses shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me,

Here is the Biblical "Age of Accountability". The children aged 19 and younger were spared while the men 20 and older who grumbled (murmured) against the Lord were doomed to perish in the desert. See also 1 Co 10:10... The wife and I say (when one of us begins to grumble about something) that you're "ten-tenning." Children under the age of 20, while unruley and discourtious at times are protected by the LORD. It has it's roots in the Bible.

Num 14:30 Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I swore to make you dwell therein, save Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun.

Num 14:31 But your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have despised.

Num 14:32 But asfor you, your carcasses, they shall fall in this wilderness.

Num 14:33 And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcasses be wasted in the wilderness.

Num 14:34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

Num 14:35 I the LORD have said, I will surely do it unto all this evil congregation, that are gathered together against me: in this wilderness they shall be consumed, and there they shall die.

Num 14:36 And the men, which Moses sent to search the land, who returned, and made all the congregation to murmur against him, by bringing up a slander upon the land,

Num 14:37 Even those men that did bring up the evil report upon the land, died by the plague before the LORD.

Num 14:38 But Joshua the son of Nun, and Caleb the son of Jephunneh, whichwere of the men that went to search the land, lived still.

If, however, when a child accepts Jesus as their Saviour, at any age, then they become a true Child of God and should be able to participate in not only the Lords Supper but any and all other sacrament(s) in your church. As well as being a full-member in the congregation including voting priviledges!

Jon_ · Sep 28, 2005

kw5kw said:
. . .

God's punishment was extended to a generation of stiff-necked people, not to all twenty-somethings and greater. This is a great example of the eisegesis inherent in the myth of the Age of Accountability. This doctrine is being read into a text that doesn't even begin to deal with the issue.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

ClementofRome · Sep 28, 2005

kw5kw said:
This thread is about "Age of Accountability"

True. But as you recall, the writer of the OP gave permission to high-jack the thread as all of these issues are tied together in some way, shape or form.

Though I thank you for bringing us back on topic.

erin74 · Sep 28, 2005

I am assuming by 'fencing off' you are not referring to a literal fence - I was trying to imagine what that looked like.

However, the Anglican church varies in it's approach to this one. The general practice that I understood growing up as a teenager in the Anglican church was that communion was something you started taking after you had been confirmed, usually as a teenager, or a new convert after they were confirmed. Also anyone who came and said that it was their normal practice to take communion in their normal church was welcome.

Lately, though, I have seen in nearly all of the churches we were at during college, before and now, that this is very open to debate. Many of the churches we were at have questioned whether we should be preventing children from taking communion. In our current church the practice is to offer it to children who do come to communion. They ask the parents if they are young, and offer them bread, and if they haven't grabbed some grapejuice dh says they give them bread and a sticker! They also pray with each of the children who come forward, whether they take communion or not.

The other question I have is what about children who have come to christ, aren't yet confirmed, and whose parents are not christians. I became a christian when I was 14. I was not confirmed until 16. In hindsight, I can see no reason why I should have been excluded from communion. My family are not christian.

calmcoolandelected · Sep 28, 2005

Did a google search this evening and found a website that has links to many articles, both pro and con. Apparently, I can't post the web address so you'll have to search yourself!

Off to read,
CC&E

Augustine_Was_Calvinist · Sep 29, 2005

kw5kw said:
This thread is about "Age of Accountability"

There is a presedent:

Here is the Biblical "Age of Accountability". The children aged 19 and younger were spared while the men 20 and older who grumbled (murmured) against the Lord were doomed to perish in the desert.

There is a context for those under 20, not being counted.

They were not counted as of fighting age. Remember, the invasion of Canaan was coming up.

kw5kw · Sep 29, 2005

kw5kw said:
...

There is a presedent:

Remember Moses sent Joshua... <snip rest for brevity>

Even if I can't spell (or is it my keyboard that can't spell??) < that was an attempt at humor folks!> I wasn't stating doctrine, just the precedent. Just in case you all missed it. Think about it.

Philos,
Your Brother in Christ,
Russ

Augustine_Was_Calvinist · Sep 29, 2005

kw5kw said:
Even if I can't spell (or is it my keyboard that can't spell??) < that was an attempt at humor folks!> I wasn't stating doctrine, just the precedent. Just in case you all missed it. Think about it.

Philos,
Your Brother in Christ,
Russ

I understand what you are saying. However, that passage is not one that communicates anything resembling an "age of accountability". I think you are trying to get the passage to say more than it does and is intended to say.

Those under 20 were exempt from serving military duty is what it's saying. Nothing more.

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