Adventists and Christmas

moicherie said:

We aren't told to celebrate our birthdays or wedding anniversaries or wear black to funerals or have Sabbath School/Divine Service/AYS and Ingathering, or have the bride dressed in white or even to go in internet sites......

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None of those things have anything to do with the birth of Christ. Christ did tell us how to celebrate His birth.

TrustAndObey said:

None of those things have anything to do with the birth of Christ. Christ did tell us how to celebrate His birth.

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Did He tell us how not to celebrate?

We're certainly told NOT to decorate a tree like the heathens do. He told us to celebrate His birth through baptism...I think that's sufficient.

I'm not saying we can't take a holiday that's already there and use it as a chance to witness. In fact, I think we should.

But lying to our children and telling them it's Christ's birthday is just a little weird IMHO.

moicherie said:

Did He tell us how not to celebrate?

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Ummm... when the Bible tells us how TO celebrate/observe something we'd be wrong to add or take away from those directions. The Bible gives us a positive command on how it is to be done - if you want to turn that around and look for the negative command, well, let's just say that's not a good thing.

TrustAndObey said:

But lying to our children and telling them it's Christ's birthday is just a little weird IMHO.

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It would be an out & out lie. Funny, I think there is a Commandment somewhere that discourages that.

PaleHorse said:

It would be an out & out lie. Funny, I think there is a Commandment somewhere that discourages that.

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We don't celebrate it as if it is Christ's actual birthday. We do make it a joyous celebration as to the FACT that Christ was born and what he was born for. My son knows that December 25th is not His birthday.

This is something we choose to do. It has nothing to do with how Adventist's as a denomination celebrate or don't celebrate Christmas.

SassySDA said:

We don't celebrate it as if it is Christ's actual birthday. We do make it a joyous celebration as to the FACT that Christ was born and what he was born for. My son knows that December 25th is not His birthday.

This is something we choose to do. It has nothing to do with how Adventist's as a denomination celebrate or don't celebrate Christmas.

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ITA no one here is or has suggested that Dec 25th is Christ actual birthday if one chooses to ignore Christmas all together then that is one's choice but do not condemn or look down on others Christians, Adventist or whatever who choose to do otherwise.

Doesn't EGW say something about what we are supposed to do at home and at church during this time of year. I am about to leave work, and if anyone can find it faster than I, be my guess. I believe she says to use this time of year in your home to invite neighbors and show hospitalityNice idea, I think, to invite for something other than shoving scriptures fown their throats). At church there can be a tree on which you place offerings that will be used to help the disadvantaged

moicherie said:

ITA no one here is or has suggested that Dec 25th is Christ actual birthday if one chooses to ignore Christmas all together then that is one's choice but do not condemn or look down on others Christians, Adventist or whatever who choose to do otherwise.

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That works both ways I hope? "Christmas" is a man-made holiday and if someone chooses not to follow the tradition at all, and chooses to use that time as a witness opportunity instead of what it has turned into today then I don't think they should be judged for it.

PrincessDi said:

Doesn't EGW say something about what we are supposed to do at home and at church during this time of year. I am about to leave work, and if anyone can find it faster than I, be my guess. I believe she says to use this time of year in your home to invite neighbors and show hospitalityNice idea, I think, to invite for something other than shoving scriptures fown their throats). At church there can be a tree on which you place offerings that will be used to help the disadvantaged

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Bingo! EGW said to take this opportunity to help OTHERS and to spread the Word of God. It absolutely can be an example to show others, that it is a time of unselfish giving, and not all about the presents.

My family doesn't have a lot to give to the needy but I've already been working on putting up bulletins in my church and sending out e-mails for one needy family that I know. I probably should've put my family "out there"...lol...but I believe in the whole idea of JOY. We should care for Jehovah, Others, Yourself. In that order.

I don't condemn someone that has up Christmas lights and nativity scenes in their yards, it's gorgeous and when you have Christ in your heart it really does make you stop and ponder Him. Just like anything else this can be used for the positive or the negative.

Actually what she said was to be hospitable. Invite them in for social gathering to your home, not bible sutdy. I believe that people are more willing to see you witness if it was a pleasant sight. Meaning, they might be more willing to attend the next Rev. Sem. at your church or Bible study at you home when invited, if in their memory was the wonderful time they had at your house a few months prior, where you just relaxed and showed them some christian love.

BTW, I noticed you said you and your husband will be coming up on your baptism anniversary. Praise God! I see you have learned and studied much and that you are still full of that first love experience with Christ! I pray that you will now mature in your relationship with Christ over the coming years! God bless you both!

Bingo! EGW said to take this opportunity to help OTHERS and to spread the Word of God. It absolutely can be an example to show others, that it is a time of unselfish giving, and not all about the presents.

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okay...new guy, remember??!! LOL
Who's EGW?

Sorry Hortysir! That is Ellen G. White.

Hortysir said:

okay...new guy, remember??!! LOL
Who's EGW?

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Why not celebrate Jesus' birth everyday?

I am new to SDA Church and to this new body. I have been learning through studies NOT to celebrate any holiday created by man. Most have roots in pagan rituals. And therefore should be avoided. Our Pastor today told us we should use the season to witness for the Lord. I agree there. But why not just witness year round and celebrate Jesus all year long?

I have always thought of the whole Xmas time as being defunked. Think about the world.

Gift giving: The three wise men gave gifts to the baby Jesus. NOT each other! If you really feel the need to give to someone, give to the needy. They have needs year round. People with nothing appreciate things given to them. "It is better to give than receive."

December 25th has its pagan roots it orginated from a pagan celabration called Saturnalia which was celebrated to commemorate the birth of the sun god.


Jeremiah.10:2-6... 2... Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

6 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.


Whether Christmas trees are idols is a matter of the heart. Heres the definition of the word idolatry.

IDOLATRY

The giving of absolute religious devotion and ultimate trust to something that is not God.


howabout giving absolute religious devotion to something that is not of God as in a holiday that is incredibly sacred to some Christians like christmas, yet God did not ordain it.

One of the best known examples of idolatry is the worship of the golden calf in Exodus 32:4.

In Exodus 32:5 it says, “And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.

Even though Aaron’s intention was to worship the Lord, the children of Israel were planning to use the image of a calf in their worship – something most definitely NOT ordained by the LORD!

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The rites that were connected with the death and resurrection of the gods Tammuz, Osiris, and Adonis are the Forerunners of the Celebration of Easter.

Ezekiel 8:13-16.... 13.... He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do. 14... Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the
north; and behold, there sat women WEEPING FOR TAMMUZ 15.... Then
said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Turn thee
yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these
16.... And he brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house,
and, behold, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the
porch and the alter, were about five and twenty men, with their
backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the
EAST; and they WORSHIPPED THE SUN toward the EAST.

Deut.12:28:32 28 Observe and hear all these words which I command thee, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee for ever, when thou doest that which is good and right in the sight of the LORD thy God.

29 When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land;

30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.

31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.

32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Verse 30... how did these nations serve their gods, so why do we have to do likewise to the Lord our God, Why do we as Christians immitate the heathens, and honor our God like the pagans honor there gods, why do we as christians celebrate the birth of our Lord and Savious Jesus Christ the same day the pagans used to celebrate the birth of the Sun god.

Even though proven historically and biblically that December 25th is not the day that Christ was born, but rather the day that the pagans used to celebrate the birth of the sun god. Why do we have to serve our God like the heathens serve there god's when God himself does not approve of that why do we try to approve of things that God almighty has disaproved why?

verse 31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: These words from God almighty is what many christians choose to ignore, the fact that the Lord does not want us to appropriate pagan manners of worshipp to honor him, he wants us to worship him in Spirit and in truth, using pagan manners of worship and appropriating them to our God is not worshipping God in Spirit and in truth.

verse 32. What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

This is another verse Christians choose to ignore do not add nor take away from what God has already said, the Lord has said in scripture that he does not want us to use pagan methods of worship to honor him why do we takeaway from what God almighty has already said?


God bless you all.

Personally, My family celebrates Christmas. It's the way I was raised. Yes, I know that it isn't the true date of Jesus' birth. I know that there are some people who don't celebrate it. But my family and I do celebrate Christmas. I'm not going to condemn anyone who doesn't. That is their choice to make.

I grew up in the Adventist Church, and everyone that I knew celebrated Christmas. I even believed in Santa Claus when I was a little kid. I remember looking through my parents' bedroom window on Christmas Eve, hoping to catch a glimpse of Rudolph's red nose in the sky. Even after I learned that Santa wasn't real, my mom still left gifts in our Christmas stockings from "Santa." My sisters and I looked forward to decorating the Christmas tree each year. I was also aware of the fact that Jesus wasn't actually born on December 25.

It wasn't until my husband and I moved to a very conservative part of the country a few years ago that we actually encountered Adventists who don't celebrate Christmas at all, though even here most of them do. We actually had a big conflict in one of our churches a few years ago about whether we should have a Christmas tree in the church. We had several people on both sides of the issue research the topic and present their beliefs. Ultimately, the church made the decision to keep the tree, and a few members stayed away from church until after Christmas when it was removed. To me, this seemed like a stupid thing to fight over. Is having a Christmas tree in church really important enough that the majority would push it on the whole church and cause those who are uncomfortable with it to avoid church during that time?

People on both sides quoted Ellen White to support their views--one group used statements that supported having a Christmas tree in church and putting money on it, and the other group cited those same statements as a concession that Ellen White made in a specific situation to help with a fund-raising project.

The thing that struck me was an article that my husband found, from a perspective that I had never thought of. Most Adventists probably know that Dec. 25 was originally a pagan worship day and that many of the traditions that are now associated with Christmas originally had pagan origins. However, Christians do not worship Christmas trees, so I do not see that as quite the same thing that the Bible talks about as far as cutting down trees and such. And many Christians are not even aware of the pagan associations of many of the symbols and traditions of Christmas. To me, it seemed like more of a secular/sacred controversy; despite the Christian reinterpretations of Christmas symbols, I thought of them as primarily secular symbols that had really lost most of their meaning. I have many family members who don't even claim to be Christians and want nothing to do with God but who still celebrate Christmas with all of the decorations and gifts and commercialized, secular aspects. What I had never thought about was the fact that paganism is still alive and well and even gaining in popularity in many places. I guess I had always thought of it as obsolete and associated with ancient cultures that are now extinct (although obviously that was a misconception). However, my husband found an article that described what it's like for someone with a pagan background to go to a Christian church and to see symbols that are still associated with paganism today. I think that's something that we need to be sensitive about as we try to reach out to people who are not Christians.

On the other hand, I don't see anything wrong with using every opportunity afforded us to tell people about Jesus. Christmas and Easter are the two most well-attended church days of the year. People are generally more receptive to going to churches for programs during the Christmas season. Many people are also lonely and depressed during that time and perhaps more open to our help. There is nothing wrong with using Christmas as a starting point, a way of connecting with people, to tell them about what Jesus has done for us.

Personally, my husband and I don't teach our kids about Santa. I have told them that Santa is only make-believe. We put up lights and snowflakes on our windows and a nativity scene in our living room. We have gifts but not extravagant gifts. We emphasize Jesus' birth because I don't see why we shouldn't use the opportunity when everyone else is celebrating Christmas to teach our kids about Jesus. We teach them about Jesus the rest of the year, too, but Christmas is a good opportunity to reiterate our beliefs since they are asking questions about everything they see around them.

YeshuamySalvation said:

December 25th has its pagan roots it orginated from a pagan celabration called Saturnalia which was celebrated to commemorate the birth of the sun god.

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I don't celebrate the birth of the sun god on that day.

Jeremiah.10:2-6... 2... Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

6 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.

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According to this kind of reasoning, putting a plastic Christmas tree in your house would be alright, since it's not, "cut out of the forest," and i guess we should stop cutting down trees to build church building or synogouges or at least make sure the timber does not come from land, but rather from below sea level, just to make sure that we are not commiting an act of wickedness, see what little sense this type of logic makes.

Let's bring the focus of these passages back to there intented purpose, the correct meaning i'm saying. These passages lose there meaning if we think the subject of either of these passages, is "trees." They're not about "trees," there about worshipping false dieties. The rest is just in reference to how the pagans worshipped at that time in history.

Whether Christmas trees are idols is a matter of the heart. Heres the definition of the word idolatry.

IDOLATRY

The giving of absolute religious devotion and ultimate trust to something that is not God.


howabout giving absolute religious devotion to something that is not of God as in a holiday that is incredibly sacred to some Christians like christmas, yet God did not ordain it.

One of the best known examples of idolatry is the worship of the golden calf in Exodus 32:4.

In Exodus 32:5 it says, “And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.

Even though Aaron’s intention was to worship the Lord, the children of Israel were planning to use the image of a calf in their worship – something most definitely NOT ordained by the LORD!

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I can agree with you on your closing statements on trees it certainly is a matter of the heart.

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i think there is a difference between celebrating(being happy) and reverencing as a holy day. for starters, i dont think any christians believe christmas is some kind of holy day. even if it was the true day of the birth of jesus. i do agree however that it is rather unfortunate that society as a whole will probably never change the day we celebrate jesus birth. but i dont think its a reason to act glum and shoot people down when they are happy about the season. i for one, "celebrate"(or just acknowledge it as a happy day for society as a whole) christmas. although i dont think its holy. going back to what i said. i think there is a difference between celebrating(being happy) and reverencing as a holy day.

MiamiHeat said:

I don't celebrate the birth of the sun god on that day.

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Never said you did.

According to this kind of reasoning, putting a plastic Christmas tree in your house would be alright, since it's not, "cut out of the forest," and i guess we should stop cutting down trees to build church building or synogouges or at least make sure the timber does not come from land, but rather from below sea level, just to make sure that we are not commiting an act of wickedness, see what little sense this type of logic makes.

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Your defence for Christmas trees above is a strawman. I didn't say or even imply that Christmas trees were idols, What i did say is that it is a matter of the heart whether they are or rather can become, anything can become idalotry.

Let's bring the focus of these passages back to there intented purpose, the correct meaning i'm saying. These passages lose there meaning if we think the subject of either of these passages, is "trees." They're not about "trees," there about worshipping false dieties. The rest is just in reference to how the pagans worshipped at that time in history.

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I'd like to challenge you to prove that anything that I said would even imply such a thing. You keep inventing strawmen, i never said nor implied the main focus of these passages were trees.

All i said is that we should not honor our God as the pagans honor theres i believe (Deut 12:28-32) is clearcut. By celebrating the birth of the messiah the same day the pagans celebrated the birth of the sun god really runs contrary to what (Deut.12:28-32) has to say.

I can agree with you on your closing statements on trees it certainly is a matter of the heart.

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That is right i never said otherwise....

God bless you my dear brother....

*AHEM* Let me re-iterate....and restate.....
*(I do that sometimes you know...)

BondGirl said:

....If we are going to toss the holiday - then we should also toss all that is connected with it.

1. Don't take the day off - work at home if necessary, stay at your job and don't get paid, but don't take the "Whole-lie Day". (My roomie also added - this is even easier if you have keys to your office. If you can't work because you don't have keys, don't forget - take work home and do it.)

2. When someone says "Merry Christmas" - make it a point to tell them the "true" origin.

3. Watch no parades, "Christmas" movies, blah-blah-blah....

4. Buy nothing that is on a "Christmas Sale Price"; either do all necessary shopping in September, wait until after the holiday season, or demand of the store manager to pay full price.

5. Sing no "Whole-lie Day" songs at church, and make sure that you explain to the entire church when they do so why it is not "CHRISTian" to do so.

6. When someone at your job, neighbor, anyone gives you a "gift" of sweets, trinkets, cheap -stank cologne; refuse it and give them the entire story the same way you tell it to those that are "in de church".

7. Don't even eat "TOFURKEY" on Christmas. After all - to eat the fake, on the same day, is just like eating the real, and even tho' eating the real is not wrong - why participate in the first place?

8. Don't make up a day in place of the "Whole-lie" Day.... it's like a substitute. If you want to commit adultery, but instead watch porn - it's just as bad...right?

Keep going people! What can you do to not celebrate the holiday in any way?

BTW: side addition that is not directly connected w/ the holiday - but is indeed pagan.....

9. Don't call any of the days/months by their names - Most are named after roman gods/rulers that killed innocent people..... Call them "month 1, month 2 - 3rd day, 5th day...and so forth....

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