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Acts 2:1-13 Today.

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JoWilli

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Acts 2:1-13 records the actions of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost directly following the ascension of Christ.

These actions of the Holy Spirit are repeated neither in Scripture nor again in today's Church, regardless of how much screaming people may want them to be.

The Holy Spirit does what He wills, not what we "invite" or "allow" Him to do.

JoWilli.
 
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ephraimanesti

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SO WHAT IS YOUR QUESTION?

ephraim
 
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heron

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These actions of the Holy Spirit are repeated neither in Scripture nor again in today's Church, regardless of how much screaming people may want them to be.
Click to expand...
Have you been in a Pentecostal or Charismatic church? The continued reality is the premise of entire denominations. (Not all churches continue to allow the Holy Spirit to move -- you might have seen one that just took over the appearance.)

These actions of the Holy Spirit are repeated daily across hundreds of thousands of churches in the world.

Take a visit to the Spirit-Filled forum ...a few interesting threads from the last two weeks:


Who Here Is Sure They Are Filled With The Holy Ghost ?
Spiritual Gifts
gifts of the Spirit
Prophecy and Healing
The Official "Altar" Of The Spirit-Filled Forum
Angel Sightings? and
How many of you have actually seen angels? (not along your topic, but reflecting the power of God showing up more tangibly)
Questions about visits to hell and near death experiences
Sickness and Healing Questions



http://www.christianforums.com/f122 (CF rules limit who posts in denomination threads, but you can Private-Message people with questions.)

...or even others where this is considered in our hands today -- Spiritual Warfare, Deliverance Ministry, Deliverance Theology, (there was a prophecy forum up until last year) and a bit in Dreams and Visions.

I find that it's not exactly as the story goes, because God works differently each day, according to what people need. In that case the gospel was new, and foreign Jewish visitors were in the area. The disciples spoke out the gospel in each visitor's native tongue.

Most church meetings today have few visiting Jewish foreigners that haven't heard of the gospel. But there are so many amazing ways that God interacts in our lives, and individually attends to each person there.


​
 
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heron

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Welcome to the forum, JoWilli. I get the impression that you have been to a service with tongues, or at least read a lot of critiques of them.

The point to remember, is that even in the most demonstrative service, the focus should not be on the gifts, but what God is doing through these expressions and communications.

For instance, sometimes others around me will be praying in tongues, but I will suddenly get a four-page solution to a problem I've been working on. Or I will sense that God is healing an emotional issue from years back. Or God will lead two people to talk to each other, in order to connect resources.

It really becomes very practical, even though it appears showy and chaotic. I recognize that there will be people in any church who spiritually compete by faking, and this is truly offensive. There are also people who think they're doing the work of the Lord when they're not checking what they've done against scriptural truths.

But using the gifts in the church is a scriptural truth. These gifts takes up quite a bit of page space, even in the OT.

They are for the edification of the Body of Christ... building each other up. If they are used without concern for each other or focus on God, then you're right in criticizing actions.
These actions of the Holy Spirit are repeated neither in Scripture
Click to expand...
There actually is quite a bit, if you keep digging.


Old Testament

Nu 11:27
The spirit rested on them, and they... prophesied in the camp.

So a young man ran and told Moses and said, "Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp."

And Moses said to him, Are you jealous for my sake? Oh that all Jehovah's people were prophets, that Jehovah would put His Spirit on them!
1Sa 10:5-13
You will meet a group of prophets coming down from the high place with harp, tambourine, flute, and a lyre before them, and they will be prophesying.

And the Spirit of Jehovah will be powerful on you, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be turned into another man.

And it will be, when these signs come to you, do for yourself what your hand finds, for God is with you.

...And the Spirit of God pushed on him, and he prophesied in their midst....And the people said, each one to his neighbor, What is this happening to the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?


1Sa 19:20-23
Then Saul sent messengers to take David, but when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, with Samuel standing and presiding over them, the Spirit of God came upon the messengers of Saul; and they also prophesied.

He proceeded there to Naioth in Ramah; and the Spirit of God came upon him also, so that he went along prophesying continually until he came to Naioth in Ramah.

1Ki 22:10
Now the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat king of Judah were sitting each on his throne...and all the prophets were prophesying before them.

All the prophets were prophesying thus, saying, "Go up to Ramoth-gilead and prosper, for the Lord will give it into the hand of the king."

(also 2Chron 18)

Ezr 6:14
And the elders of the Jews were successful in building through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo.

Jer 14:14
Then the Lord said to me, "The prophets are prophesying falsehood in My name. I have neither sent them nor commanded them nor spoken to them; they are prophesying to you a false vision, divination, futility and the deception of their own minds.

[which happens...]

"Therefore thus says the Lord concerning the prophets who are prophesying in My name, although it was not I who sent them--yet they keep saying, `There will be no sword or famine in this land'--by sword and famine those prophets shall meet their end!

[and God is well aware of the falsehood, and does not approve...]

Jer 23:16 -32
Thus says the Lord of hosts, "Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you. They are leading you into futility; They speak a vision of their own imagination, not from the mouth of the Lord.

21 I did not send these prophets, but they ran. I did not speak to them, But they prophesied. 22"But if they had stood in My council, then they would have announced My words to My people.

Can a man hide himself in hiding places So I do not see him?

Behold, I am against those who have prophesied false dreams," declares the Lord, "and related them and led My people astray by their falsehoods and reckless boasting."


Eze 13:17, 22
"Now you, son of man, set your face against the daughters of your people who are prophesying from their own inspiration. Prophesy against them.

Because you disheartened the righteous with falsehood when I did not cause him grief, but have encouraged the wicked not to turn from his wicked way.

Am 7:12
Then Amaziah said to Amos, "Go, you seer, flee away to the land of Judah and there eat bread and there do your prophesying! Then Amos replied to Amaziah, "I am not a prophet, nor am I the son of a prophet; for I am a herdsman and a grower of sycamore figs. 15 "But the Lord took me from following the flock and the Lord said to me, `Go prophesy to My people Israel.'



New Testament

Ac 19:6
"He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, wehave not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."

...When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.


Mr 16:17 (Jesus' words)
These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues.

Ac 10:46
For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God.

1Co 12:10 ( Read the whole Chapter )And there are differences of workings, but the same God is working all things in all. And to each one is given the showing forth of the Spirit to our profit.

For through the Spirit is given to one a word of wisdom, and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit;

and to another, faith by the same Spirit, and to another, gifts of healing by the same Spirit, and to another, workings of powers, and to another, prophecy, and to another, discerning of spirits, and to another, kinds of languages, and to another, interpretation of languages.

But the one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing separately to each as He wills.

1Co 11:4, 5
Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head.

1 Corinthians 13
If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but I do not have love, I have become as sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophecies, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing...

1Co 14:5
Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy.


1Co 14:18
Pursue love, and seek eagerly the spiritual things, but rather that you may prophesy. For the one speaking in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God, for no one hears, but in spirit he speaks mysteries.

But the one prophesying to men speaks for building up, and encouragement, and comfort.

The one speaking in a tongue builds himself up, but he prophesying builds up an assembly.

And I wish all of you to speak in languages, but rather that you may prophesy.

So then, the one speaking in a language, let him pray that he may interpret.

...I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the mind; I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the mind.

I thank my God that I speak more languages than all of you. But in an assembly I desire to speak five words with my mind, that I may also instruct others...

It has been written in the Law, "By other languages" and "by other lips" "I will speak to this people," "and even so they will not hear" Me, says the Lord. (ref. Isaiah. 28:11, 12)

So that tongues are not a sign to those believing, but to those not believing. But prophecy is not to those not believing, but to those believing.

...Then if the whole assembly comes together, and all speak in tongues, and uninstructed ones or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you rave?

...For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be encouraged.



Paul goes to great length to keep these gifts and communications of the Holy Spirit orderly and productive, beneficial to others.

God still wants to save the baby when the bathwater is filthy.​
 
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J

JoWilli

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Heron,

Can you tell us which of the specific features recorded in Acts 2:1-13 you have seen today?

JoWilli.
 
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sandman

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The book of Acts records the rise and expansion of the Christian Church. If you are looking for the identical situation, you won’t find it. This was the record of the original outpouring, what took place at that time was the phenomena of tongues like as of fire, and the miracle that took place was
11: Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
heron has taken the time to lay out several scripture references on tongues, and it appears that, that is not what you are looking for so what exactly is it your looking for, a little clarity might help.
I get the impression that you are trying to say that the tongues of today are not valid ……why? because nobody can understand and because there is no fire.

And what point are you trying to make with this misrepresented statement
The Holy Spirit does what He wills, not what we "invite" or "allow" Him to do.
Click to expand...
 
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heron

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If you are looking for the identical situation, you won’t find it.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Sandman.

There is a purpose to everything that God does.

In the case of Acts 2, the tongues spread the gospel to people who would not have been able to understand it in the local Aramaic or Greek or Hebrew.

I know of at least three cases where someone spoke audibly in tongues out of obedience of the moment, and a person nearby heard the gospel, or a reassuring word, in their native tongue.

I have not felt the wind rush in, but have sensed strong presence before I walked into a room.

I have attend Charismatic churches off and on for several decades, and have seen many things happen. I have not seen flames above people's heads. But then, I haven't seen manna, or a pillar of fire leading a crowd of millions. I don't need manna, and I don't need a pillar of fire. They did.

I have been in services where friends saw immense angels. Not the preacher, not a visiting speaker, but friends.

I know many friends who have been healed miraculously. I have been healed with a God-sent set of intructions to follow (roughly a week 's process).

I won't go on with other gifts of the Spirit, since you asked about the day of Pentecost specifically.

There are times when God needs to shake people with a sign, and times that quiet faith is more than enough. I don't feel that every day must have miracles in it. But every day must have God working beside me.
 
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JoWilli

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Sandman,

Read what I wrote, not what you might be able to "kind of see" in between the lines.

Do not try to imagine what you "feel I am trying to say." Read the lines, like a man, not in between the lines, like a woman.

Nothing in Acts 2:1-13 is repeated by anyone today, not even by those who call themselves "Pentecostal."

Can you show Scripture where the Holy Spirit is "allowed" or "invited" to do anything by a human being ... ?

JoWilli.
 
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JoWilli

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Heron,

In other words, you do agree that the Acts 2:1-13 event was never, as far as we know, repeated in any respect?

Do you "let" God do signs in your church ... ?

JoWilli.
 
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JesusFreak079

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JoWilli, 3 things:

1. People speak in tongues everyday because of being overcome by the Holy Spirit and that's exactly what happened in Acts.

2. People are still wondering what exactly you're trying to prove or ask with this thread. Tell us what your purpose is for starting it.

3. I am a firm believer that mature debate does not leave any place for insults. Debating involves arguing another's point with one of your own, not putting down their opinion with insults. That's simply an easy way of backing out of really facing another's opinion head-on. I suggest you find another way to argue your point.
 
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sandman

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Like I stated originally, and I would reiterate JesusFreak on his statement, a little clarity would be helpful…………….
The fact that you know the point that your attempting to make I am sure gives you that sense of control, but with your “drive by statements” one can only speculate.
Things that would be helpful:
What is your point ……disperse the sound bite statements and actually lay out the entire rendition of what it is your insinuating, how you have come to your conclusion, the scripture reference to validate your belief, how it accurately fits with the rest of the Epistles, and if you are referencing speaking in tongues; how would we reconcile the numerous discrepancies, with the clearly defined scriptures .......dealing with this manifestation of the spirit.
I am sure your comment about “reading between the lines like a woman” was meant to denigrate me ….but………. thanks for the complement. I have been trying to get in touch with my feminine side, and it looks like I may have accomplished that

The Holy Spirit does what He wills, not what we "invite" or "allow" Him to do.
Click to expand...
As I stated in my first post this statement is misrepresented, but maybe I should ask you what it is your speaking of, so I am not “reading between the lines”
Depending on context, Holy Spirit can be referencing God, or holy spirit can be referencing the gift God gave us at the new birth. Before trying to dispute or discuss this statement it would be helpful to know what you are referring to.
 
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JoWilli

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Sandman,

I said, "The Holy Spirit does what He wills, not what we "invite" or "allow" Him to do.

You retorted by calling that statement "misrepresented." How does that statement "misrepresent" Scripture?

Can you, in a "heads on" manner, cite Scripture which shows the Holy Spirit can be "invited" or "allowed" to do anything?

JoWilli.
 
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sandman

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God …Holy Spirit


God being Holy Spirit is not subject to us, but you cannot separate God from His Word therefore whatever God speaks in His Word ………. He is bound by His word to bring it to pass, whenever we with believing hearts speak it.

The gift of holy spirit


God being Holy Spirit gives His gift of holy spirit to each and every one who has confessed Romans 10 :9 {and or other scriptures which hold the same value} With that gift of holy spirit in us, we are the ones who operate the manifestation of the spirit. (i.e.) the 9 manifestation of the spirit listed in I Corinthians 12:9-11{happy to submit to you in length these scriptures that show we are the ones who operate the gift ………..if you so request. But for example I Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
This verse sits right in the heart of Gods instructions to the people at Corinth who were off the mark on the operation of tongues, interpretation, and prophecy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Still you have not given anything substantive on the direction you are heading ……………..care to open up yet ????????????????????????
 
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JoWilli

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Sandman,

You do not control the Holy Spirit.

You do not obligate God to "bring to pass" His Word when you speak the recorded Word of God, regardless of how "sincere," and "believing" your heart is.

Do you have an example of the Apostles "speaking" recorded Word of God, and thereby having God "bound" to perform it?

Give a heads on answer.

JoWilli.
 
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Elijah2

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Interesting, but what point are you making?
 
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Elijah2

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JoWili, I am still trying understand what you are trying prove or start? At the moment it appears that you have a bee in the bonnet about something. SO what is your story?
 
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