Absurdities of so called science

Nathan Poe · Mar 19, 2009

AV1611VET said:
No problem --- I'm addressing a video that's full of mistaken assumptions.

So -- you thought a few mistakes of your own would add variety?

Then try this one ---

Better?

Not really -- it doesn't say which Heaven, or even if it means it in the generic sense of "the Heavens," i.e., from up above.

But this gets into what I think is going to be Jester's whole point --- that anything moving faster than C would be subject to the Lorenz Contraction.

Anything in the real world would be -- or if you prefer, anything subject to the laws of the physical universe.

Again, I have to disagree. As I showed, God "set" those stars in their places in a certain order --- not just randomly.

You "showed" no such thing -- you've postulated some sort of idiotic notion that the stars are supposed to spell out the Bible in the sky, or some such nonsense which I've already given more respect to than it merits, but have "shown" nothing.

And as Kenneth Fleming points out in his book:

... God placed the constellations in an order that pictographically shows the Plan of Salvation.

Except that the stars move -- because, as you would say, God moves them. Constellations we see now would be different from the ones seen at the time God allegedly put them into position, and will be different in the future.

So, was that message meant for God's people back then, for us in the here and now, or for some future generation? Are you humble enough to consider the possiblity that if God did leave a message in the stars, it's wasn't meant for you?

Furthermore, Fleming is (unsurprisingly) going on his own say-so that "God's" plan for the constellations -- which, not coincidentally, mirror Fleming's own -- are the right ones.

Consider the Big Dipper:

www.astrosociety.org said:
Nearly every culture on Earth has seen patterns in the stars. But, not surprisingly, very few have seen the same patterns. Take, for example, the Big Dipper, perhaps the most recognizable star pattern in the sky. The Big Dipper is not actually a constellation itself, but is part of a larger pattern known to the Greeks as Ursa Major, the Great Bear. The seven stars of the Big Dipper have inspired many stories, perhaps because they are bright and located so near the north celestial pole, around which the stars rotate during the course of the night. But not everyone calls it a Dipper. The British call it a Plough. In Southern France, it is a Saucepan. The Skidi Pawnee Indians saw a stretcher on which a sick man was carried. To the ancient Maya, it was a mythological parrot named Seven Macaw. Hindu sky lore called it the Seven Rishis, or Wise Men. To the early Egyptians, it was the thigh and leg of a bull. The ancient Chinese thought of it as a special chariot for the Emperor of the Heaven or some other celestial bureaucrat. For the Micmac Indians of Canada's Maritime Provinces, along with several other North American Indian tribes, the bowl of the Big Dipper was a bear, and the stars in the handle represented hunters tracking the bear. And in the nineteenth century, the Big Dipper became a symbol of freedom for runaway slaves, who "followed the Drinking Gourd" to the northern states.

Any reason I should believe you/Fleming over any of these other cultures, who saw messages from their God(s) spelled out in the same sky?

Jester4kicks · Mar 19, 2009

AV1611VET said:
It traveled in the medium of Heaven until it was encased in outer space when God created Second Heaven.

Here's a crude example --- not exactly the way it happened , but close enough that you get the idea.

Picture someone shooting an arrow with a string attached to the nock end, and the other end of the string attached to --- say --- a baseball.

The arrow is moving fast, until it encounters --- and has to account for --- the weight of the ball.

The arrow is now moving much slower, pulling the ball along with it.

Let the arrow represent the leading edge of light, created in Genesis 1:3.
Let the baseball represent the star, created in Genesis 1:16.
Let the string represent the beam of light from the observer (arrow) to the source (baseball).

Let the target represent the earth, and that should [hopefully] clarify the issue.

Now --- let's look at it another way --- since my example doesn't really answer your question:

Picture shooting an arrow (no strings, no nothing attached), then instantly snapping your fingers and the arrow is encased in molasses --- still moving toward its target, but much more slowly now.

The arrow represents light going through the medium of Third Heaven, the molasses represents Second Heaven.

Excellent analogy! Ok, now I understand where you're coming from on that front. (There are a few little points of confusion... but they're just technicalities and I don't think it will affect my ability to grasp your position)

AV1611VET said:
I cited Genesis 1:31 as when He finished His creation.

Isaiah 40 says He then stretched it to its current dimensions --- and is still doing so today.

Note: He may have stretched it in a moment of time as a one-time act, and it could still be expanding today, but I don't want to get into that paradox here.

Agreed. I believe you settled on the response that he stretched (past tense) everything to its current dimensions. (I suppose I could play devil's advocate here and say that such an act of stretching could result in residual "stretching" which would also be attributable to god even though he's not actively doing it anymore)

So, now we just need to determine when that initial stretch happened. I understand that you said it was after he finished creation... but I don't believe you answered by question regarding when that was (relative to now, of course).

Here's the order again. I'm trying to fill in the spot currently labeled "To be determined".

Here's the current order again:

1. god created third heaven

2. In the palm of his hand;
a. god created earth
b. god created light (traveling at the speed of his will)
c. god created the first heaven, which is the earth's atmosphere
d. god created second heaven (space), and created stars and planets within it

3. ~(To be determined) years ago;
a. God "opened" his hand, and stretched everything out to (basically) where it is today

mpok1519 · Mar 20, 2009

no, llamas are in the same family as camels.

That girrafe should be a camel.

lol

no, thats not how llamas came to be. A girraffe did not have sex with a donkey and suddenly poof, we have an entire new species.

LifeToTheFullest! · Mar 20, 2009

Because throughout four billion years of animal evolution, they have been in captivity and fed three meals a day while humans walk past and take pictures.

dad · Mar 21, 2009

LifeToTheFullest! said:
Because throughout four billion years of animal evolution, they have been in captivity and fed three meals a day while humans walk past and take pictures.

That doesn't fit the evidence any more than anything else in imagined time. The long ages are simply the mechanism that is used to try to wave away creation, and make fables look credible to the misinformed.

dad · Mar 21, 2009

Of note in the thread, Themat never supported the sediments are identical in the far past claim.. surprise

As well as the sn1987a issue, that was raised, ....

Amazing how the fingers that point to me, claiming I don't deal in the issues point right back.

dad · Mar 21, 2009

mpok1519 said:
no, llamas are in the same family as camels.

That girrafe should be a camel.

lol

no, thats not how llamas came to be. A girraffe did not have sex with a donkey and suddenly poof, we have an entire new species.

I agree that it was not inter marriage that caused the llama to come to be. If it is a sub class of a kind, the evolving happened fast, in a different state past. Science is in the dark there.

LightHorseman · Mar 21, 2009

dad said:
I agree that it was not inter marriage that caused the llama to come to be. If it is a sub class of a kind, the evolving happened fast, in a different state past. Science is in the dark there.

How can you deny the photographic evidence?

dad · Mar 22, 2009

LightHorseman said:
How can you deny the photographic evidence?

There is no photo you can show us that I deny. Try to be serious. You think you have pics that prove a same state past??!! Get a grip.

Nathan Poe · Mar 22, 2009

dad said:
I agree that it was not inter marriage that caused the llama to come to be. If it is a sub class of a kind, the evolving happened fast, in a different state past. Science is in the dark there.

What different state past?

AirPo · Mar 22, 2009

Nathan Poe said:
What different state past?

The one he made up, that he doesn't have a picture of.

suzybeezy · Mar 22, 2009

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Absurdities of so called science

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