Jester4kicks
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I guess that means you didn't have any regarding this? Or did you just miss the response?
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As I understand, a photon is a quantum packet of electromagnetic energy with no mass, and moves through space at a speed of 186,282 miles per second.
Let me reiterate --- with emphasis --- it moves through space at 186,282 miles per second.
But the earth and stars were created in the palm of God's hand --- in Heaven.
And it's possible that light moves faster in Heaven than it does in space.
Just a thought.
Sorry AV, but this latest attempt fails horribly. However, I will do you the respect of explaining why... not that I expect, even if I somewhat hope, that you'll return the favor.
Let's consider the furthest galaxy that we have observed so far. It's actually mentioned in that video. By all of our measurements, the galaxy in question is about 13 billion light years away.
Now, we've got two possible options with what you proposed:
Option 1) The universe expanded prior to that particular galaxy forming. Unfortunately, this option doesn't really help your case since the measurements still place that particular galaxy at 13 billion light years away. If your explanation were true, our ability to simply see that galaxy would indicate that the "expansion" you described occured more than 13 billion years ago.
Big=old still works.
Option 2) The galaxy in question (as well as all other galaxies) all existed within a small portion of space that then expanded out. Unfortunately, the explanation doesn't really work either. But here's the fun part! There's a scientific explanation for why this option doesn't work! Ready for it?
First, let's establish that the only way for us to see an object that is 13 billion light years away, without the light from that object actually travelling for 13 billion years, is if the light we are currently seeing from said object is actually much younger than we think it to be.
Now, unless you want to try and pinpoint down the age of the universe, I'm going to go with the relatively-standard YEC-literalist perspective of ~6000 years.
Based on that, the light that we are currently viewing from the galaxy in question could only be 6000 years old. In other words, we would have to be seeing said galaxy at the position it was at 6000 years ago. Now, comparing that information to what our other measurements tell us... we have a problem. In order for this to be true, the galaxy in question would have needed to travel a MASSIVE distance in a very short period of time.
Even if THAT was possible, the resulting velocity would have caused a MAJOR doppler-shift in the light we are observing from it.
But we don't see any of that. There's no strange blip in the data... all of the tests confirm the same answer.
So... if every single method of determining the distance to that galaxy, and thus the MINIMUM age of the universe (since we can see it) shows the same result... I believe we can only form two logical conclusions:
1) The tests are right.
2) God created the universe in such a way for all of our tests to show us something other than the truth. Hence, he is the ultimate deceiver.
(Oh, and I don't mean to present a false dichotomy. If someone believes a different option exists, please speak up)
I dismiss a same state past until t5here is proof, of course. Why guess? Science is better than that. It must remain a fable until then, no matter how much some cherish their baseless assumptions. That means you fail, unless you establish by evidence the state of the past universe fabric. No wiggling out of it.
Of course the universe is big. Glad we cleared that up. So? Former light moved at the speed of God's will. Our light is fixed, at present man's temporary prison speed. That would be our temporary present state universe speed, to be clear, for you. So?
And here I point out supernova 1987A once again. If the speed of light were constant, then this supernova went off some 168,000 years ago. If the speed of light were faster in the past, then the supernova had to go off before 168,000 years ago.As I understand, a photon is a quantum packet of electromagnetic energy with no mass, and moves through space at a speed of 186,282 miles per second.
Let me reiterate --- with emphasis --- it moves through space at 186,282 miles per second.
But the earth and stars were created in the palm of God's hand --- in Heaven.
And it's possible that light moves faster in Heaven than it does in space.
Just a thought.
He is measuring the distance, using the speed of light as 186,282 miles per second in a vacuum --- traveling through Second Heaven.I guess that means you didn't have any regarding this? Or did you just miss the response?
He is measuring the distance, using the speed of light as 186,282 miles per second in a vacuum --- traveling through Second Heaven.
To understand the universe correctly --- as when it was created --- one would have to analyze the speed of light --- traveling through Third Heaven - (specifically, the palm of God's hand).
There is no such thing as "168,000 years ago".And here I point out supernova 1987A once again. If the speed of light were constant, then this supernova went off some 168,000 years ago. If the speed of light were faster in the past, then the supernova had to go off before 168,000 years ago.
In the physical world, time = distance/velocity --- but in Heaven, distance and time mean nothing.
Invisible.God is transparent?
In this case --- zero --- since the only medium light was traveling through was Heaven.And what's his refractive index?
He is measuring the distance, using the speed of light as 186,282 miles per second in a vacuum --- traveling through Second Heaven.
To understand the universe correctly --- as when it was created --- one would have to analyze the speed of light --- traveling through Third Heaven - (specifically, the palm of God's hand).
There is no such thing as "168,000 years ago".
Again --- you're making the mistake of measuring time by distance.
In the physical world, time = distance/velocity --- but in Heaven, distance and time mean nothing.
Like I said, in First and Second Heaven, time is the ratio of distance over velocity.And yet light apparently has a speed there, which has units of distance AND time....
Invisible.
In this case --- zero --- since the only medium light was traveling through was Heaven.And unaffected by gravity, by the way.
Like I said, in First and Second Heaven, time is the ratio of distance over velocity.
But in the New Heaven and the New Earth --- time will be no more.
Thus the formula would look like this: distance/0 = velocity.
And we all know what that means, don't we?
Instantaneous travel.
Sorry AV, but this latest attempt fails horribly. However, I will do you the respect of explaining why... not that I expect, even if I somewhat hope, that you'll return the favor.
Let's consider the furthest galaxy that we have observed so far. It's actually mentioned in that video. By all of our measurements, the galaxy in question is about 13 billion light years away.
Now, we've got two possible options with what you proposed:
Option 1) The universe expanded prior to that particular galaxy forming. Unfortunately, this option doesn't really help your case since the measurements still place that particular galaxy at 13 billion light years away. If your explanation were true, our ability to simply see that galaxy would indicate that the "expansion" you described occured more than 13 billion years ago.
Big=old still works.
Option 2) The galaxy in question (as well as all other galaxies) all existed within a small portion of space that then expanded out. Unfortunately, the explanation doesn't really work either. But here's the fun part! There's a scientific explanation for why this option doesn't work! Ready for it?
First, let's establish that the only way for us to see an object that is 13 billion light years away, without the light from that object actually travelling for 13 billion years, is if the light we are currently seeing from said object is actually much younger than we think it to be.
Now, unless you want to try and pinpoint down the age of the universe, I'm going to go with the relatively-standard YEC-literalist perspective of ~6000 years.
Based on that, the light that we are currently viewing from the galaxy in question could only be 6000 years old. In other words, we would have to be seeing said galaxy at the position it was at 6000 years ago. Now, comparing that information to what our other measurements tell us... we have a problem. In order for this to be true, the galaxy in question would have needed to travel a MASSIVE distance in a very short period of time.
Even if THAT was possible, the resulting velocity would have caused a MAJOR doppler-shift in the light we are observing from it.
But we don't see any of that. There's no strange blip in the data... all of the tests confirm the same answer.
So... if every single method of determining the distance to that galaxy, and thus the MINIMUM age of the universe (since we can see it) shows the same result... I believe we can only form two logical conclusions:
1) The tests are right.
2) God created the universe in such a way for all of our tests to show us something other than the truth. Hence, he is the ultimate deceiver.
(Oh, and I don't mean to present a false dichotomy. If someone believes a different option exists, please speak up)
I dont think av read your post jester.
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