Abortion

Kira Faye · Mar 23, 2004

You know anouther way to get rid of a fetus is just to kill urself, some peopel wouldn;t have much else of a choice if abortion was nto allowed, or a backyard abortion, stick a crochet needle up and let the girl bleed to death, or better yet dump the child liek they do in china when they have extra children, much better alternative to let the child die in the cold then to have never experianced any pain really.

As you can see there are not really any pretty sides, we migth as well for the sake of humanity allow abortions so we don't have to see the above. I would prefer that it never was needed as an option, cause people are lose in their ways or get attacked. I would like to see adoption of the child or keeping it of people in that situation, btu I wish the situation never occured and people never had to make that drastic choice. The people who are in real trouble with pregnancy, liek rape medical problems, shoudl get our support not to be condemmed.

Bob Moore · Mar 23, 2004

If a woman does not want to have a child there is a sure fire way to avoid it that does not involve murder. Abstain.

Even in the case of rape there is no excuse because it is the only innocent party involved that gets killed.

Mylinkay Asdara · Mar 23, 2004

Excuse me? Wouldn't the woman qualify as an innocent party in rape, or are you one of the few remaining cavemen who thinkthat women (and apprantly children) bring rape on themselves?

jazzbird · Mar 23, 2004

transientlife said:
I could not agree more, Flicka. In most cases I would suppose that abortion is not something done casually. I would think most women who have gone through it only choose it after much soulsearching. So, if a woman decides that's the path she wishes to take, then she knows her own self and far be it from us to judge as we are not in her shoes. Also far be it from us to impose our unsolicited moral beliefs on others, especially for such a DEEPLY PERSONAL decision which is no one else's business but the mother and father's. It's all well and good to be ProLife and look out for the fetus, but I'm all for at least having the CHOICE...even if I wouldn't get an abortion, I still want the ability to CHOOSE. Sometimes we forget that ProChoice does not mean ProAbortion.

Either a fetus is a living human being, or it is not. If it is a human being then abortion is murder. We don't have the choice to murder an individual who is outside the womb, why are we given the choice to murder one who is not yet born?

AdJesumPerMariam · Mar 23, 2004

Mylinkay Asdara said:
Excuse me? Wouldn't the woman qualify as an innocent party in rape, or are you one of the few remaining cavemen who thinkthat women (and apprantly children) bring rape on themselves?

I don't think that is what he meant. Our society is much too easy on rapist. (castration?) Anyways, there are 2 innocent parties here, the baby, and the mama. I have seen some mamas keep their children & raise them, thinking they are blessings, and I have seen girls give their babies up for adoption after rape. Both were similarily happy with the decisions they made.
I am just saying there are better ways than abortion.

Love-n-Blessings
dee

Bob Moore · Mar 23, 2004

Mylinkay Asdara said:
Excuse me? Wouldn't the woman qualify as an innocent party in rape, or are you one of the few remaining cavemen who thinkthat women (and apprantly children) bring rape on themselves?

I meant innocent in the sense of not yet having done anything. Truly innocent, playing no part, having no say, and winding up as the ultimate victim. There is something terribly wrong with that.

jazzbird · Mar 23, 2004

Kira Faye said:
You know anouther way to get rid of a fetus is just to kill urself, some peopel wouldn;t have much else of a choice if abortion was nto allowed, or a backyard abortion, stick a crochet needle up and let the girl bleed to death, or better yet dump the child liek they do in china when they have extra children, much better alternative to let the child die in the cold then to have never experianced any pain really.

As you can see there are not really any pretty sides, we migth as well for the sake of humanity allow abortions so we don't have to see the above. I would prefer that it never was needed as an option, cause people are lose in their ways or get attacked. I would like to see adoption of the child or keeping it of people in that situation, btu I wish the situation never occured and people never had to make that drastic choice. The people who are in real trouble with pregnancy, liek rape medical problems, shoudl get our support not to be condemmed.

Why wouldn't a woman "have much else of a choice if abortion was not allowed" than to:

A. Kill herself to get rid of the baby
or
B. Get a back alley abortion to get rid of the baby

Yes, pregnancy can be a great inconvenience, and it can be embarressing and even shameful depending on your family and community, but are these really the only options you can come up with other than legal abortion?? It's all about "choice," right? No one is dragging this woman into some seedy place with a greasy guy with a dirty coat hanger. If that's what she wants to do to deal with her problem - that's her choice.

What is so horrible in this woman's life that she would go to such measures rather than carry the child for nine months? She doesn't have to keep it, and be responsible for it for the rest of her life. That too is her choice.

You're right - it's not a pretty issue any way you look at it. No one here is condemning. I, and most pro-life people, are not against abortion because we think people should be punished, but rather because the baby is a human being, and as a human being it deserves our protection, even in the case of rape. A human being is a human being. It doesn't matter the circumstances surrounding it's creation. There is already one victim in the situation of rape. We do not need to make it two. BTW, 95% of the abortions performed are "birth control" abortions. There is a very small percent which are due to rape or endangered health. I do not dismiss those cases, simply because they are few in comparison, but it is not a reason to end another life.

flicka · Mar 23, 2004

Bob Moore said:
If a woman does not want to have a child there is a sure fire way to avoid it that does not involve murder. Abstain.

I just had a mental image of a world where no woman ever, anywhere, would have sex unless she was 100% willing to carry a baby for 9 months and give birth....what a outcry there would be from the men!

AdJesumPerMariam · Mar 23, 2004

There are natural ways of avoiding pregnancy...there are only about 3 days out of the month a woman is furtile-abstain on those days! Also, what is SO WRONG about waiting until you are married? Are women of today so afraid of not pleasing a man?

Love-n-Blessings
dee

flicka · Mar 23, 2004

dede10 said:
There are natural ways of avoiding pregnancy...there are only about 3 days out of the month a woman is furtile-abstain on those days! Also, what is SO WRONG about waiting until you are married? Are women of today so afraid of not pleasing a man?

Love-n-Blessings
dee

hehe...well lots of married women don't want a baby every 9 months either..

AdJesumPerMariam · Mar 23, 2004

flicka said:
hehe...well lots of married women don't want a baby every 9 months either..

So again, whats wrong with abstaining the 3 fertile days a month? It would be much cheaper than an abortion, or birth control...

Love-n-Blessings
dee

jazzbird · Mar 23, 2004

flicka said:
hehe...well lots of married women don't want a baby every 9 months either..

What is the big deal about birth control? Sure, it's not fullproof, but if used correctly it's very effective. I wonder how many women who have abortions are responsible about protecting themselves from unwanted pregnancy before they get pregnant. There are way too many abortions performed in this country for all of those women to have been on birth control when they got pregnant.

flicka · Mar 23, 2004

jazzbird said:
What is the big deal about birth control? Sure, it's not fullproof, but if used correctly it's very effective. I wonder how many women who have abortions are responsible about protecting themselves from unwanted pregnancy before they get pregnant. There are way too many abortions performed in this country for all of those women to have been on birth control when they got pregnant.

I agree 100%!!!

I think most educated women are responsible about using bc but it needs to be more readily available and education is a must. Men need to be more active about this as well.

Outspoken · Mar 23, 2004

Mylinkay Asdara said:
Excuse me? Wouldn't the woman qualify as an innocent party in rape, or are you one of the few remaining cavemen who thinkthat women (and apprantly children) bring rape on themselves?

I think the applicable analogy is that someone leaves a baby on your doorstep in a blizzard. you cannot get the child to anyone else for the next few weeks. Do you leave it to die outside simply because it was forced on you?

Outspoken · Mar 23, 2004

flicka said:
I agree 100%!!!

I think most educated women are responsible about using bc but it needs to be more readily available and education is a must. Men need to be more active about this as well.

I totally agree. I would venture to say that around 80% or so of women that get abortions are because of just unwanted pregency, with no life threatening problems. They just didn't want to use birth control.

jazzbird · Mar 23, 2004

Well, I did a little searching on contraceptive use and abortion. This is what I have found so far:

The following is from a recent study in MN. I'm not sure how they compare with the rest of the country, or the west in general:

Womans contraceptive use and abortion
65% Used contraceptives, but not at the time of
conception
26% Used contraceptives at the time of conception
5.5% Never has used contraceptives
0.8% Did not know whether she used contraception
2.5% Did not provide information
Unfortunately, many women use abortion as a form of
birth control. For example, more than 70 percent of the
women who obtained abortions in 2001 did not use any
form of birth control when they became pregnant.

http://www.mccl.org/birthcontrol90.pdf

This is a side note, but I found it rather shocking:

Worldwide about 133 million births occur annually; of these, experts estimate about 33 million (one-fourth) are unintended. In addition, an estimated 46 million induced abortions are performed, bringing the total number of unintended pregnancies to roughly 79 million per year. Almost as many unintended as intended pregnancies occur each year, and more than half of these unintended pregnancies end in abortion.

http://www.popcouncil.org/mediacenter/newsreleases/sfp900bongaarts.html

jazzbird · Mar 23, 2004

Outspoken said:
I totally agree. I would venture to say that around 80% or so of women that get abortions are because of just unwanted pregency, with no life threatening problems. They just didn't want to use birth control.

Actually the percentage is even higher than 80%, at least in all the statistics I have seen. It's around 95%.

jazzbird · Mar 23, 2004

oops, double post

jazzbird · Mar 23, 2004

flicka said:
I agree 100%!!!

I think most educated women are responsible about using bc but it needs to be more readily available and education is a must. Men need to be more active about this as well.

I'm very glad we can agree on that!

Women need to be educated about various bc methods and how to use them effectively, and I also believe that abstinance should be taught and strongly encouraged in high schools, but I am not for abstinance only education, because we still need to prepare them and give them proper knowledge. I don't believe that schools should be handing out condoms, though.

transientlife · Mar 23, 2004

jazzbird said:
Either a fetus is a living human being, or it is not. If it is a human being then abortion is murder. We don't have the choice to murder an individual who is outside the womb, why are we given the choice to murder one who is not yet born?

I quite disagree. I'm not debating if the fetus is living or not. And we do have the choice to murder an individual outside the womb, it's more or less the exercising of that choice. Most people CHOOSE not to kill others because of the repercussions and/or individual's morals. You completely missed the point I was trying to make in the post, but oh well. To each our own. I choose to let individuals decide for themselves and let them deal with the consequences...not impose my morals and ethics on those who may not share the same. It's their body, their kid (or not, depending) and none of my business.

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