Abortion

Malakar · Mar 15, 2004

So how do feel about abortion? I want to hear logical argument for or against the matter. I already know about what the Bible says, so please don't mention that in your post.

MAMiller · Mar 15, 2004

Malakar: Logical?! Oh, no ... you got me there. I must admit my opinions are rarely bible based and more heart based. This is because I don't want to spit out knowledge I don't completely have. I am a Christian in study, oh my ... and my comprehension in reading is only so, so ...

Here is my logical (I guess, lol) reasoning. I am pro-life because I think the evidence about abortion is all around us. What is rarely discussed is how empty many women feel after an abortion, how depressed, and lost. I had a dear friend who had an abortion at a young age. She never told me until one night when she broke down in tears. She confessed how it was killing her inside. She had obviously felt a piece of herself gone. Shortly thereafter she got pregnant again (on purpose) to fill that void. That is not unusual, I understand.

I know when it comes to incest and rape there are very good arguments for abortion. I just can not get Gods words out of my head (Bible). God speaks of knowing us even in our mothers womb. Unfortunately there is no easy answer. There are life and death situations that require abortion I understand, according to the medical community (although this is often abused ... ex. aborting multiple(s) to ensure others have a better chance). I can not speak for other women, I can not choose for them. I can only say that I am pro-life when it comes to my body.

We must also keep in mind that most abortions are merely for convience only. I believe abortions for convience is wrong.

Vylo · Mar 15, 2004

I am somewhat inbetween on abortion. Abortions of convenience tend to disgruntle me to say the least. The biggest question to me is whether or not it is murder. Until roughly 22 weeks into pregnancy, there is no fuction of a fetus's brain, the organ of our body which allows us to have the capacity to absorb culture and become human. Since it is not functioning I would consider the fetus to be human in nature, but not infact, a human being. Since it is not a human being, destroying it is not murder. Beyong this point in pregnancy (with some buffer time, I feel pretty certain that even 10 weeks would be enough to make this decision in) I am vehemenly against abortion, except in cases of medical emergencies. To do so would then be the murder of a human being.

jazzbird · Mar 16, 2004

The majority of abortions are for convenience sake, and I find that so disturbing, yet a complete reflection of the values our society upholds.

The arguement that a fetus is not a human being from the moment of conception has always baffled me. Sure, in the first stages it doesn't resemble a human, but the end result is obviously a human - a person. It is illogical to argue that abortion is okay based on this arguement, because we were all at one time this tiny helpless fetus. Shoul we terminate one's right to breathe, to think, to create, to see beauty, to feel joy and pain, simply because it doesn't yet have that capability and is unable to make a decision for himself? It would be like saying that since an infant can't yet walk, talk, feed itself, make decisions, it's okay to kill it because it doesn't have many qualities that we find useful in a human being. This infant is a great inconvenience to the mother who has to get up at all hours of the night, feed it from her own body every couple hours, listen to it's incessant crying. Doing simple tasks become major events. It would sure make her life easier if she just got rid of it.......I know it may sound absurd, but I believe there is a direct correlation between that illustration and abortion.

As was said above - God knew us while we were in the womb! I think that is amazing! He had instilled us with a spirit a personality. We were more than a blob of tissue (even if that's all we looked like)! We had gifts waiting to be developed, love waiting to be nurtured.

Mylinkay Asdara · Mar 16, 2004

I don't believe the conception is the moment of soul assignment. Even if it was I personally believe in re-incarnation so it's not like you're killing the soul - just the body

jazzbird · Mar 16, 2004

Mylinkay Asdara said:
I don't believe the conception is the moment of soul assignment. Even if it was I personally believe in re-incarnation so it's not like you're killing the soul - just the body

So, if you believe in re-incarnation, then do you view abortion as morally okay, since the soul will simply be "reassigned" to a different body (if it does have a soul)? When is the moment of "soul assignment" in your opinion if it's not from the moment the flesh is created? Looking through the lens of reincarnation, is abortion acceptable, or do you find it wrong?

Mylinkay Asdara · Mar 16, 2004

Acceptable is a strech... Acceptable implies that it's okay in all situations - which is not the case. However, believing in re-incarnation, yes - I do believe that the body is secondary and in the event of an abortion that soul still enters the world, just in another place and body. I believe that souls are assigned when self-awareness is possible.

Sparkle · Mar 16, 2004

Aside from my biblical reasons here are some others:

1. There is a hidden agenda behind abortion, they use aborted fetuses for scientific experimentation and to make vaccines - That does not sit well with me.

2. Doctors and nurses make a profit from taking life, they are supposed to save lives.

3. Women suffer immense emotional strain after having an abortion, some will never admit it, but trust me they do and it usually lasts a lifetime. That emotional strain, can be exausting and takes away from their quality of life. Also, did you know that before a woman has an abortion they will hardly ever be told that they will suffer emotionally? Suicide amongst women that have had abortions is very high!

4. There are also enormous physical risk, some women young and old die from botched abortions. The risk of breast cancer is tripled after a woman has an abortion, because of the un natural release of horomes. Sometimes, because the uterus gets scarred these women will never have another pregnancy. These women [again] are hardly ever told they will face these risks.

5. There are many couples who for various reasons cannot have babies on their own, who will gladly adopt a baby.

Women have a right to know these things, we need to speak out, so the truth will be heard.

Mylinkay Asdara · Mar 16, 2004

1. There is a hidden agenda behind abortion, they use aborted fetuses for scientific experimentation and to make vaccines - That does not sit well with me.

Well, it's using something that would otherwise be a complete waste of a life. I don't suppose you have any problem with organ donation? Even of children who can't 'consent' so that another child can live?

3. Women suffer immense emotional strain after having an abortion, some will never admit it, but trust me they do and it usually lasts a lifetime. That emotional strain, can be exausting and takes away from their quality of life. Also, did you know that before a woman has an abortion they will hardly ever be told that they will suffer emotionally? Suicide amongst women that have had abortions is very high!

You speak for them? You don't speak for me. Hopefully enough said.

These women [again] are hardly ever told they will face these risks.

Again - you don't speak for them. I was told the risks, so was my sister, mother, friend, another friend, and finally my boss was also told the risks so... whom do you speak for??
I'm not trying to disrespect you - but it's not possible for you to simply say 'this is how it is for everyone and that's all there is to say' because that's not true. Half truths are still lies.

flicka · Mar 16, 2004

I am pro choice because I believe in personal responsibility. If a woman chooses to abort she will live with that, good or bad. She is the only one who knows how a pregnancy will effect her life and her emotional state.

I personally don't know anyone who has had an abortion and regreted it. I think the regret is that the pregnancy occured in the first place despite precautions. I also don't know anyone who has had more than one because they all went to extreme measures (steralization or vasectomy) afterwards.

This also may be unusual but several of the women I know were married and/or with children at the time of their abortions so I have to assume they knew their own personal limits with regards to child bearing. The harsh reality is many families have fallen apart from having more children than the parents can handle. Not everyone is strong, not everyone can be provided for. This is one thing my mother and grandmother told me when I first got married, and since they had their children in times before birth control was available I am confident they knew what they were talking about.

As for adoption goes, i applaud those who can make this decision, however, I don't think its anyones responsibility to have a baby just because someone else can't have one. Pregnancy changes everything about a womans life and babys shouldn't be seen as a commodity.

Of course this is just my opinion based on my own life experiences. Others will no doubt have different views but I will not debate abortion.

Sparkle · Mar 16, 2004

Well, it's using something that would otherwise be a complete waste of a life. I don't suppose you have any problem with organ donation? Even of children who can't 'consent' so that another child can live?

That life is not a waste, as there are couples who would gladly adopt. Organ donation is not an issue here as fetuses are not donating organs.

You speak for them? You don't speak for me. Hopefully enough said.

I speak for myself, friends and people I have counselled. Perhaps in the USA is different, but for the most part when it comes to medical procedure in Canada you are not properlly informed.

These are not half truths, these are based on facts that I have personally witnessed.

Mylinkay Asdara · Mar 16, 2004

That life is not a waste, as there are couples who would gladly adopt. Organ donation is not an issue here as fetuses are not donating organs.

Yes, but if the fetus is going to be aborted (dead tissue after death) then it's better to use that tissue to help others that it is to simply discard it.

Also - I apologize - I didn't realize that you were from outside the US. Here women are very informed of what will happen to their bodies, both by the clinics and by the angry protestors you'll find outside of virutally every clinic. Women here have to sign documents before the procedure testifying that they have been informed of all the risks before doctors can legally preform the procedure. There are ornanizations to help you find the best, cleanest, clinics and these orginazations also explain the procedures in detail online and off.

I, also, speak for myself. I was sexually abused in my parents home and had to have 2 abortions as a result of that abuse. I regret having become pregnant, and regret not being able at the time of my pregnancies to raise my children (I was just a child myself!) or the strength to give them up, but I do not feel I have been unfixably damaged by the procedures - all my doctors were very kind hearted and patient with me. I slept on the table and when I woke up I wasn't pregnant anymore.

Sparkle · Mar 16, 2004

I, also, speak for myself. I was sexually abused in my parents home and had to have 2 abortions as a result of that abuse. I regret having become pregnant, and regret not being able at the time of my pregnancies to raise my children (I was just a child myself!) or the strength to give them up, but I do not feel I have been unfixably damaged by the procedures - all my doctors were very kind hearted and patient with me. I slept on the table and when I woke up I wasn't pregnant anymore.

My heart goes out to you, and I'm glad you have peace with your decision. I pray that you would have peace surrounding your life. In the extreme circumstances [like yours] I do agree that abortion should be a choice. However, if the abortion is being done [like so many are] because having a baby would be disrupting or inconvenient than it is wrong. And most abortions are done for that reason, and it is those women that come for counselling, and have emotional scars. The selfishness of their decisions catch up with them. Especially the women that are talked into the procedure by their loved one.

Mylinkay Asdara · Mar 16, 2004

Agreed - it should not be used as a form of birth control - but only the woman making the choice is qualified to determine the line between not wanting a baby and not being able to have a baby.

Sparkle · Mar 16, 2004

Perhaps, but if they weren't taught that it is okay to do what ever you feel is right, and that there aren't any consequences...blah...blah...blah then they make make different decisions.

Mylinkay Asdara · Mar 16, 2004

I was always under the impression that doing what you thought was right was a good thing.

jazzbird · Mar 16, 2004

I am pro choice because I believe in personal responsibility. If a woman chooses to abort she will live with that, good or bad. She is the only one who knows how a pregnancy will effect her life and her emotional state.

How is having an abortion being personally responsible? Does the woman not have responsiblity to face consequences to her behavior, rather than running away from them and hiding them? Does she not have responsibility to her child in her womb who is there due to choices that she made (accept for very rare circumstances)?

Yes, you're right - she will live through it - but her baby won't. How sad is that?

flicka · Mar 16, 2004

jazzbird said:
How is having an abortion being personally responsible? Does the woman not have responsiblity to face consequences to her behavior, rather than running away from them and hiding them? Does she not have responsibility to her child in her womb who is there due to choices that she made (accept for very rare circumstances)?

Yes, you're right - she will live through it - but her baby won't. How sad is that?

It is being personally responsible for herself, her future and her emotional state. If she feels regret or remorse after the fact that is also her responsibility.

Yes, it is sad...but unless you want to tie women down for 9 months and force them to deliver babies they dont want for your own piece of mind I dont think we have any other choice.

Outspoken · Mar 16, 2004

I am pro-life. Aside from religious reasons my logic goes like this.

1. Preserving human life is always correct (historical examples are the hypocratic oath and the like).
2. We do not know when human life starts (assuming in the womb because anything else is logically ridicious).
3. When dealing with the possible death of a human take the conservative route.
4. Thus no abortion.

jazzbird · Mar 16, 2004

flicka said:
It is being personally responsible for herself, her future and her emotional state. If she feels regret or remorse after the fact that is also her responsibility.

Yes, it is sad...but unless you want to tie women down for 9 months and force them to deliver babies they dont want for your own piece of mind I dont think we have any other choice.

It called selfishness, not "personal responsibility."

Why shouldn't women who are sexually active be "tied down" for nine months with the child that they created? Do such women have no control over their behavior?

Question to you: Is a fetus a human being?

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