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chilifrankplate said:I seriously doubt that every single manifestation of the Holy Spirit has been recorded in the Bible. You don't have to believe it though if you don't want to. I believe that if Jesus is being preached and praised in spirit, and in truth, then whatever comes is from God.
ProAmerican said:Ah, this evangelical is to be placed before the primacy of the scriptures?
I like Tozier, but Paul commended the Bereans for searching the scriptures in his time to see if what he was saying was from God. If Paul could come back today he would commend Christians for searching the scriptures to see if the Laughing Revival was/is from God.
What you are doing with this thread is basically a rhetorical trick called an appeal to authority. You are in effect, saying, here is this great evangelical, Tozier, so I will appeal to him and what he has to say...in an attempt to bolster your argument.
Nice try.
We must look to the scriptures to see if something is a manifestation from God. If there is no scriptural basis, to say, entire congregations laughing uncontrollably, people being stuck to the floor in "Holy Ghost Glue" people barking like dogs, mooing, etc, then one cannot know with 100% certainty that they are manifestations from God.
Argumentum ad ignorantiam? Again God tells us how to test the spirits. And do you really have that little faith in the staying power of God?We know that talking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance, laying hands on the sick, dreaming dreams, seeing visions, the gifts of the Spirit being for today, are backed by the Bible, and are therefore scripturally sound manifestations/occurences.
Since there will be great deception in the last days, we cannot take a chance on being duped. If there is no scriptural basis for the Laughing Revival, then one should leave it alone(i.e. stay away from it).IMHO.
There were many Charismatics who were/are opposed to much if not most of what took place during the Laughing Revival. One does not have to agree with the Laughing Revival as being from God in order to qualify as being a Charismatic. One can be opposed to even all or most of it and still be a Charismatic.
Oscarr said:Firstly, The Pharisees knew the Scriptures backward, yet they would not believe that the miracles of Jesus were acts of the power of God. Nor did they believe that He was the Christ, the son of the living God. So these knowledgeable men had Jesus, the Son of God crucified. So knowing and studying the Scriptures is not always an indication of being able to discern what manifestations are of God or not.
Secondly, I didn't think that the OP was about the 'laughing revival' that has recently taken place. All I saw was Tozer, a man respected as one of history's great men of God, endorsing the manifestation and expression of joy in the Lord through laughter. Joy is one of the fruit of the Spirit, so laughter as part of worship has a definite scriptural basis.
Isn't it interesting that there are people who put down what great men of God in history taught in times past about the themes they disagree with. I guess I might listen to the current criticisms if the people criticising have the calibre of men like Tozer and Spurgeon had.
Svt4Him said:Oh, I see before you start naming fallacies you use one yourself. I don't recall reading anything that says this is placed before the primacy of the scripture.
You get that? I get that the op is saying that it's not just 'charismatics' who have experienced laughter. But you're kind of building your own argument then tearing it down. Kind of circular reasoning there?
No, we must test the spirits to see if they're from God, unless you can direct me to see where it says to test manifestations? And while you're doing that testing, let the Joy of the Lord be your strength, just don't laugh while having that joy because...well
Argumentum ad ignorantiam? Again God tells us how to test the spirits. And do you really have that little faith in the staying power of God?
Now you use an argumentum ad populum to counter an appeal to authority? And you are right, one can be Christian and still be opposed to a lot of what God is doing. Like CS Lewis said, they can have bad doctrine that makes them bad Christians, but it's not his job to say who is or isn't Christian.
Wally22 said:End of the day..these kinda things are great but without fruit/change/growth..whats the point?
I know of christians who experinced this laughter and there was no observable change in their charector/walk ect ect It was just somethinbg they enjoyed.
read the events vs process thread a few pages back
Wally22 said:End of the day..these kinda things are great but without fruit/change/growth..whats the point?
I know of christians who experinced this laughter and there was no observable change in their charector/walk ect ect It was just somethinbg they enjoyed.
read the events vs process thread a few pages back
Wally22 said:End of the day..these kinda things are great but without fruit/change/growth..whats the point?
I know of christians who experinced this laughter and there was no observable change in their charector/walk ect ect It was just somethinbg they enjoyed.
read the events vs process thread a few pages back
Oscarr said:How did you know whether change in their character or walk did occur even if you were not able to observe anything? Change happens in a person's heart and it is not often observed by others right away.
By the way you are mentioning it, you seem to be presuming that change and growth does not happen along with the manifestation of joy in the Lord. I detect a prejudice here.
Change and development happens gradually in a person's life. It is never observable day to day. There may be rare times where there is a crisis experience where change is observable, but these are, indeed, very rare - once or twice in a person's lifetime. For the rest of the time, change and development is gradual like the hands on a clock - line upon line, precept upon precept. You can't actually see the hands of the clock moving when you look at it, but over a length of time, you see that the hands have moved.
Also, a person does not experience change because of just one episode of a manifestation of joy - or anything else. Development happens in the context of a whole ongoing series of episodes where the Holy Spirit is working in and through a person.
It may be good for you to concentrate on what the Holy Spirit is doing in you, rather than having your eyes on others and judging whether their experiences are true or not. If you don't wish to have these manifestations in your life, then don't have them - there's no skin off anyone's nose either way.
And if others want to have experiences where they want to laugh or cry or do anything else in the Spirit, well that is their business before God and therefore not judgeable by others.
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