I need to ask you. How do you define a cause? Dose it need to be determinable by us humans for it to be a cause?
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I need to ask you. How do you define a cause? Dose it need to be determinable by us humans for it to be a cause?I fear you are misunderstanding me.
Quantum mechanics tells us very clearly that there is no specific cause. It is probabilistic - we can only ever determine the probability of the atom decaying.
Actually, all that quantum mechanics can tell us is that we can't specify a cause, any more than we can trace down, after the fact, the identity of the butterfly whose wing flapping caused the hurricane. In considering quantum cosmology that butterfly might be in a neighboring universe.You don't seem to get it.
How we define it is irrelevant. Quantum mechanics - which has been very well verified - tells us there is no specific cause.
No, but the underlying theory that tells us just what's happening, does say there's no cause.You and wikca seemed to misunderstand me... I never stated "There might be a cause, we just haven't found it yet." I stated "Even though we could never predict it accurately, and/or never find the cause it doesn't necessarily mean there's no cause at all.
You don't seem to get it.
How we define it is irrelevant. Quantum mechanics - which has been very well verified - tells us there is no specific cause.
Actually, all that quantum mechanics can tell us is that we can't specify a cause, any more than we can trace down, after the fact, the identity of the butterfly whose wing flapping caused the hurricane. In considering quantum cosmology that butterfly might be in a neighboring universe.
No, but the underlying theory that tells us just what's happening, does say there's no cause.
Nothing has no property, something has a property. in order for nothing to cause something, then nothing would need a property in which something has.
Something has property(properties) and nothing has no properties or at least the properties of nothingness.
How then can nothing cause something?
It cannot as if nothing caused something, it would need the property of it's creation, it has none.
also if nothing caused something then it would need an eternal sort of property to do so, which means that it's something instead of nothing.
nothing therefore causes, nothing. in order for you to prove that nothing can cause something you need to prove that it has the properties to do so, that it's own properties of nothingness is something, however nothing is not something and a property is something, therefore nothing wouldn't really be nothing.
Nothing can only cause, nothing. The Cause of the universe therefore cannot be nothing as that is now an Impossibility. The Cause of the universe is not material, nor is it nothing.
therefore with Creation Ex Nihilo, The Cause has the properties needed to create the universe, yet The Cause is Immaterial since not material, and not nothing, and The Cause caused the universe out of nothing. and The Cause is God(The Trinity of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit), there's no escaping it.
your whole thread has been destroyed, don't ever in a debate bring up "nothing causing nothing".
Yes.Sure about that?,
I've already posted my response to that. Your arguments are... lacking, to say the least.Also w_child, I already proved to you that nothing causes, nothing.
Lets refresh your memory,
God(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit) created All Reality.
Yes.
Watch the video. it Quantum vaccum isn't empty space, that argument is therefore false. "quantum mechanics of the gaps" pertaining to The First Uncaused Cause is now unusable and would be deceiving.
I've already posted my response to that. Your arguments are... lacking, to say the least.
Ah yes, I remember that. 'Refutation' is a tad generous.your response was, http://www.christianforums.com/t7695364-8/#post61736781
and I refuted that with, http://www.christianforums.com/t7695364-8/#post61737898
Mhm. I'd made my responses to your arguments. Your last post was a repetition of the last, a mess of petitio principii.Which you never replied to.
Because you say so, right? Sorry, you really do need to understand that an argument needs more than that.get over the argument, it's void because nothing causes, nothing.
Ah yes, I remember that. 'Refutation' is a tad generous.
Mhm. I'd made my responses to your arguments. Your last post was a repetition of the last, a mess of petitio principii.
Because you say so, right? Sorry, you really do need to understand that an argument needs more than that.
Nothing has no property, something has a property. in order for nothing to cause something, then nothing would need a property in which something has.
Something has property(properties) and nothing has no properties or at least the properties of nothingness.
How then can nothing cause something?
It cannot as if nothing caused something, it would need the property of it's creation, it has none.
also if nothing caused something then it would need an eternal sort of property to do so, which means that it's something instead of nothing.
nothing therefore causes, nothing. in order for you to prove that nothing can cause something you need to prove that it has the properties to do so, that it's own properties of nothingness is something, however nothing is not something and a property is something, therefore nothing wouldn't really be nothing.
Nothing can only cause, nothing. The Cause of the universe therefore cannot be nothing as that is now an Impossibility. The Cause of the universe is not material, nor is it nothing.
therefore with Creation Ex Nihilo, The Cause has the properties needed to create the universe, yet The Cause is Immaterial since not material, and not nothing, and The Cause caused the universe out of nothing. and The Cause is God(The Trinity of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit), there's no escaping it.
your whole thread has been destroyed, don't ever in a debate bring up "nothing causing nothing".
God does not have to abide by mine or anyone's logic. God is God. And that God I have recently come to know as KRISHNA. KRISHNA in the fully personal, robust sense of that term. All this world is his materialized will-force, the end-result of Love. We are all One, I have come to acknowledge, but God has a personal face.
Ah! Now it makes sense. The reason you don't change your argument, the reason you assume your conclusion and fundamentally cannot see your error, is because you actually believe it's comeRefutation is generous, more like demolished everything about "naturalism", The Holy Spirit gave me The Power and Wisdom to destroy "naturalism", if it wasn't already destroyed by The Bible and Science.
You assume that I want to - I don't. It stands for itself as a pillar of the worst logic seen on Christian Forums.No it wasn't, if it was you'd refute it,
Because I say so, right? Sorry indeed! because it's not because I say so, but because I proved so with Facts..
Sure you have, dear, sure you have.Lets again refresh your memory,
And in case you claimed you refuted anything, I refute that as well with the last rebuttal which you couldn't reply to,
http://www.christianforums.com/t7695364-8/#post61737898
Go back to that thread and defend your argument, otherwise as I've already proved(evident by the fact that I proved nothing causes nothing and you couldn't refute anything) that nothing causes nothing.
There is no mindless "naturalist" explanation to The First Uncaused Cause/Cause of the universe, you are left with The Fact that, God exists, The Bible is True and His Authentic Word and that God is The Trinity of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit). Amen.
1 Fact, The Bible, nothing else. Look up The Facts and Accept Jesus Christ.
Seductive anti-intellectualism, eh?Never trust the mind. The mind can be your worst enemy. You have to pacify it somehow. Truth comes first, then the mind can step in as a maidservant to that glorious Truth.
Seductive anti-intellectualism, eh?
Sounds like a PA bought to you by the Ministry of Truth.
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