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Yes, and all truths are fundamentally tautologies. E=MC squared is a tautology. 2+2=4 is a tautology. All truths reduce to a thing is some aspect of what it is or A is A.I think you might like the word tautology.
Do you think tautologies can be reduced?Yes, and all truths are fundamentally tautologies. E=MC squared is a tautology. 2+2=4 is a tautology. All truths reduce to a thing is some aspect of what it is or A is A.
"When I open my eyes the first thing I'm aware of is that things exist."A primary is a fact that is irreducible. It is not dependent on other facts. It is something known directly from perceiving reality and not the product of an inference. When I open my eyes the first thing I'm aware of is that things exist. This is a primary. In grasping that things exist I also grasp that I do and that I'm conscious. That's a primary. Morality is not a primary. It's a higher-level abstraction.
It is not at all tautological to say "there is a rock in my front yard."Yes, and all truths are fundamentally tautologies. E=MC squared is a tautology. 2+2=4 is a tautology. All truths reduce to a thing is some aspect of what it is or A is A.
Only to the axioms. No further.Do you think tautologies can be reduced?
If that's the case then existence exists is not a tautology either Saying that Energy=Mass is no different than saying exist=real. E=MC squared is the same thing as saying that energy is some aspect of what energy is, i.e. mass times the speed of light squared. And a trivial truth is still true and therefore any statement identifying this truth has meaning. Whether you think that meaning is trivial or not is irrelevant.It is not at all tautological to say "there is a rock in my front yard."
ETA: A tautology is something that is trivially true. Not all identities are tautologies. A heck of lot of work went into E = mc². Nothing trivial about it.
Here's the whole sentence of yours I was referring back to, where you summarize your basic assertion in bold:But that's not what I said. I said existence exists. I didn't say exist=exist. Look, If I say that a tree exists is that saying nothing? Exist=Exist is not a statement of the form all S is P. When I say that trees exist, I'm saying that all trees exist. That is the same thing as saying that all trees that exist are real. This distinguishes them from things that are not. Is it not important in your worldview to make a distinction between what's real and what isn't? Because that would explain a lot of our interactions on this forum.
To which I answer, its neither reasonable nor unreasonable because its says nothing.So it's wildly unreasonable to say that existence, all the things which exist, actually exist[?]
Whats the alternative? If there is no conceivable alternative then you are indeed saying nothing.....Look, If I say that a tree exists is that saying nothing?....
And, Tinker Grey, all that heck of a lot of work began with the recognition that energy exists which means that energy is something as opposed to nothing. It may be trivially true but Einstein could not have done that work without first making this recognition. The trivially true statement that existence exists means that everything that exists, including energy and mass, exists, is something, is real. but apparently this means nothing.It is not at all tautological to say "there is a rock in my front yard."
ETA: A tautology is something that is trivially true. Not all identities are tautologies. A heck of lot of work went into E = mc². Nothing trivial about it.
Does the statement that trees exist say nothing?Here's the whole sentence of yours I was referring back to, where you summarize your basic assertion in bold:
To which I answer, its neither reasonable nor unreasonable because its says nothing.
Whats the alternative? If there is no conceivable alternative then you are indeed saying nothing.
Two things:And, Tinker Grey, all that heck of a lot of work began with the recognition that energy exists which means that energy is something as opposed to nothing. It may be trivially true but Einstein could not have done that work without first making this recognition. The trivially true statement that existence exists means that everything that exists, including energy and mass, exists, is something, is real. but apparently this means nothing.
I was referring to Durangodawood's statement.Two things:
- Definition of TAUTOLOGY"but apparently this means nothing" ← don't put words in people mouths.
Are there things that are real? Yes. The collection of things that are is called reality. Does existence exist? I'll side with Aristotle, Hume, Frege, Kant, and Russel: No.I was referring to Durangodawood's statement.
Is it true that existence exists?
I can imagine some alternatives in which trees are projections of our imagination. Or that we live in a simulation in which trees are immaterial but just appear solid.Does the statement that trees exist say nothing?
In your mind, is anything axiomatic other than existence and identity?Only to the axioms. No further.
Maybe you should concentrate on what we are talking about in general rather than introducing individual hypotheticals which do nothing to advance the conversation. There will always be a 'Little Johnny' story which will counter any position one takes. Pick any position at all on any subject you like and I will give you an example which refutes it. Will that mean that I have countered your position? Of course not.
Exceptions are exactly what it says on the box. Exceptions to the rule.
If that's the case then existence exists is not a tautology either Saying that Energy=Mass is no different than saying exist=real. E=MC squared is the same thing as saying that energy is some aspect of what energy is, i.e. mass times the speed of light squared. And a trivial truth is still true and therefore any statement identifying this truth has meaning. Whether you think that meaning is trivial or not is irrelevant.
Hmmmm...this certainly is food for thought. What's the relationship/difference between reasoned behavior, conditioned behavior, intuitive behavior, and instinctive behavior.
Not sure, I'll have to ponder it for a while.
I'm defining morality as a set of principles to guide one's actions in the pursuit of a good life. Why do we need such a concept in the first place?
Read more Camus.Absurd means wildly unreasonable. So it's wildly unreasonable to say that existence, all the things which exist, actually exist. This is unreasonable? It's not comprehensible to you that you exist and that you are not a ham sandwich or a yoga mat but a man. You seem to be spinning off into absurdity Why can't you just acknowledge that man exists and he has an identity? This is self-evident and it seems so silly to argue over it. You can comprehend abstractions like realm, strictly, rediculous, and loaded but you can't comprehend that existence exists?
“Morality” then, is the underlying principles that enable people to justify a given action
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