A problem with one of the titles of Jesus...

choirfiend · Jul 17, 2005

Monica said:
I know the conversation have moved on but what verse doesn't have Scriptural basis?

M.

By that I mean not related to a quote like you did the other stanzas.

"You're my friend and you are my brother
Even though you are a king
I love you more than any other
So much more than anything"

Grace,

CHOPIN! ALL RIGHT!!! Anything French and Impressionist is good with me, but Chopin is definitely the top of the list. I wish I played....

joyfulthanks · Jul 17, 2005

choirfiend said:
Grace,

CHOPIN! ALL RIGHT!!! Anything French and Impressionist is good with me, but Chopin is definitely the top of the list. I wish I played....

That's okay, I wish I could sing!!! (You DO NOT want to hear me try!)

Monica child of God 1 · Jul 17, 2005

choirfiend said:
By that I mean not related to a quote like you did the other stanzas.

"You're my friend and you are my brother
Even though you are a king
I love you more than any other
So much more than anything"

"Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother." --Mark 3:35

"For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers." --Romans 8:29*

Sorry, I thought I had quoted these in an earlier post.

M.

choirfiend · Jul 17, 2005

I was looking for more than a single descriptor--If we were just matching single words, you could try to claim words like "Lord" "Jesus" and "God" as scriptural attributions.

Monica child of God 1 · Jul 17, 2005

choirfiend said:
I was looking for more than a single descriptor--If we were just matching single words, you could try to claim words like "Lord" "Jesus" and "God" as scriptural attributions.

Those verses do point to the fact that Jesus is our Brother. You may want to read them in context.

M.

Marjorie · Jul 17, 2005

He is definitely our brother insomuch as he is truly man, "born of a woman." God the Father and God the Holy Spirit cannot be our brother because they are not human persons. As the first-born of many brethren, Paul is referring to resurrected, glorified humanity, of whom Christ is the first, the elder brother...

In IC XC,
Marjorie

choirfiend · Jul 17, 2005

I did. I think there is a difference between God calling people things and us calling GOd things.

The matching of single words isn't claiming scriptural basis for the verse of the song, which is what I'm talking about. It's like taking a single bible verse out of context to take a single word out of the sentence/verse and try to prove something with it.

Monica child of God 1 · Jul 17, 2005

I think the idea of Christ as our Elder brother reinforces his Humanity. He became Man so that he could invite us into the life of the Holy Trinity. I am definity not saying that He is only a Brother. He is that and so much more

"...there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother." --Proverbs 18:24

Good night all!

Monica

Melethiel · Jul 17, 2005

choirfiend said:
CHOPIN! ALL RIGHT!!! Anything French and Impressionist is good with me, but Chopin is definitely the top of the list. I wish I played....

The only French music I can stand is the French Baroque, which is practically German anyway.

I like Bach for organ and Mendelsohn for piano.

Pyotr · Jul 17, 2005

So, OK, I'm kinda surprised no one's said this...or maybe I didn't see it (I tend to skim long threads if I come in late)...aside from what's already been mentioned about "friend" and "brother," here's the following two cents:

The term "friend" in the Bible is primarily equated with a state of being in covenant with someone, where there's an understanding of radically sacrificial service towards the other. All things are a completely open book to the other person, and this goes both ways. For us to call Christ our "friend" (and vice versa) implies a radical disclosure of self (which He has done for us in the Incarnation and which we, though imperfectly, strive to do in order to be His friends (John 15:13-14)).

"Brother" is seen as more of the "kinsman redeemer" thing from Esther, as Christ, being (as choirfiend pointed out) the Only-Begotten Son of God, laid the foundation for our redemption from death as adopted sons and daughters of the Father. So...since Christ is the only natural Son of the Heavenly Father, and we are sons and daughters by adoption through His blood, this makes the second Person of the Holy Trinity our Brother in a very real way...though this is always, of course, to be seen in the light of His redemption of humankind through the Cross and Resurrection.

Both of these terms are very Orthodox (as has been shown). Neither of them demands (or even really suggests) the superficial familiarity that Protestantism can (but by no means always does) suppose.

Shubunkin · Jul 17, 2005

Xpycoctomos said:
Yeah, I think you're right.

Super.... I rarely say such profound things.

Xpycoctomos · Jul 17, 2005

Choirfiend said:
I'm in a African American tradition choir

Melethiel said:
I'm getting a degree in music

Ufonium2 said:
I'm a musicologist

GraceMercyPeace said:
I'm a classicly trained pianist.

Well, I can only strum C, G, and F on the guitar but I still agree with y'all.

Campfire songs need to stay at VBS, funtime with the parents and around the campfire. Yes, this is praise and worship in as much as sweeping the floor and being thankful for the floor and the broom is praise and worship... but this is certainly not music fit for the Divine Worship we experience on Sundays when Heaven meets Earth.

John

elizabethevangeline · Jul 18, 2005

choirfiend said:
This is what we think of our Lord, Jesus Christ.

To You, the Champion Leader and Lord, the Vanquisher of Hades, I, Your creature and servant, offer a song of praise, for You have delivered me from eternal death. But as You have ineffable loving-kindness, deliver me from all dangers, that I may cry to You:

Jesus, Son of God, have mercy on me.

Thank you for posting this. What is this hymn called?

Monica child of God 1 · Jul 18, 2005

Pyotr said:
So, OK, I'm kinda surprised no one's said this...or maybe I didn't see it (I tend to skim long threads if I come in late)...aside from what's already been mentioned about "friend" and "brother," here's the following two cents:

The term "friend" in the Bible is primarily equated with a state of being in covenant with someone, where there's an understanding of radically sacrificial service towards the other. All things are a completely open book to the other person, and this goes both ways. For us to call Christ our "friend" (and vice versa) implies a radical disclosure of self (which He has done for us in the Incarnation and which we, though imperfectly, strive to do in order to be His friends (John 15:13-14)).

"Brother" is seen as more of the "kinsman redeemer" thing from Esther, as Christ, being (as choirfiend pointed out) the Only-Begotten Son of God, laid the foundation for our redemption from death as adopted sons and daughters of the Father. So...since Christ is the only natural Son of the Heavenly Father, and we are sons and daughters by adoption through His blood, this makes the second Person of the Holy Trinity our Brother in a very real way...though this is always, of course, to be seen in the light of His redemption of humankind through the Cross and Resurrection.

Both of these terms are very Orthodox (as has been shown). Neither of them demands (or even really suggests) the superficial familiarity that Protestantism can (but by no means always does) suppose.

Thank you! This is what I have been trying to get at but failing miserably. No one ever said I was articulate

Your description is how I see Christ's role as Brother and Friend. Not a casual relationship but a Brother to mankind by becoming one of us. A Friend by laying down His life for us.

M.

Pyotr · Jul 18, 2005

elizabethevangeline said:
Thank you for posting this. What is this hymn called?

Isn't it the Akathist to the Lord Jesus?

joyfulthanks · Jul 18, 2005

Okay, this is a little off topic, but I think that one of the reasons contemporary praise music often seems shallow and repetitive (aside from the three chord structure and the fact that our society is about as deep as a sporano right now) is the perceived requisite use of rhyme.

When you have to rhyme one verse to the next, you can't really express yourself or theological concepts in depth because you will have a very limited number of words from which to choose. When I hear new praise songs, I can usually predict what the next line will be with a fair amount of accuracy because the line will be limited by the rhyme.

elizabethevangeline · Jul 18, 2005

Pyotr said:
Isn't it the Akathist to the Lord Jesus?

Thanks Pyotr.

Hey, I've read your blog! (I think I found it thru St. Stephen's Musings?...)

Shubunkin · Jul 18, 2005

Hey, I play a Hammond once in a while. I detest contemporary Christian music in the church, but will play it occasionally at home. Praise services are the worst invention ever. I play Bach on my Hammond, and thoroughly enjoy it. I used to play piano (traded the piano in for the Hammond), and have an electronic keyboard that is currently in storage until time there is more room for it (when sons completely move out of the house).

This is my fourth Hammond organ, and nothing takes the place of it, even if it is 37 years old.

choirfiend · Jul 18, 2005

My professor is one of the best organists/pianists ever, I think. He is the music director at the historic and legendary New Bethel Baptist church in DC...If anyone ever wants an MP3 of my choirs, just ask!!

A problem with one of the titles of Jesus...

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