A problem with one of the titles of Jesus...

Moros · Jul 17, 2005

88Devin07 said:
I have been wondering, I listen to a lot of Gospel and Praise music. One of the songs, titled "As the Deer" has these following words in it:

I have been wondering, is it right/okay to refer to Jesus as your brother?

I believe Jesus isn't only my judge, my king, my redeemer, savior, Lord and God. But I also believe he is our "buddy" and our closest friend. But would we refer to him as our "brother"??

I am wondering what Protestant Gospel and Praise music have to do with Orthodox Christology.

Monica child of God 1 · Jul 17, 2005

choirfiend said:
Yea, but look at the commentary with brother and who it is coming from...I love Fr. Gilquist and am very glad to have spent time with him on several occasions, but a former evangelical is going to talk like a former evangelical. Maybe it's too much of a reaction against to how Christianity seems to be presented to a lot of people in America, but it just doesn't sit right with me. I need more humility, so I veer away from pop expressions and instead stay with the expressions of the Church.

Do you think Father Peter is less Orthodox than a priest who was a cradle Orthodox? Just wondering...

If someone has a problem with the terms "Friend" and "Brother" I understand. But know the idea is definitely in Scripture and our own liturgical material.

M.

choirfiend · Jul 17, 2005

Monica said:
Do you think Father Peter is less Orthodox than a priest who was a cradle Orthodox? Just wondering...

If someone has a problem with the terms "Friend" and "Brother" I understand. But know the idea is definitely in Scripture and our own liturgical material.

M.

No, but I think he speaks differently than a cradle, a convert from conservative protestant, or a convert from Roman Catholicism would.

choirfiend · Jul 17, 2005

I'm in a African American tradition choir--which means we sing hymns, traditional and modern Gospel, African music, modern compositions from AA composers, etc. It's both religious and secular. While there are sometimes messages I disagree with (innate concepts like eternal "one-time" salvation, etc) there's more theological depth there than there is in most "pop" manifestations of christian music. Much of it is drawn from scripture and psalms...I like that text more than I like praise and worship songs.

Monica child of God 1 · Jul 17, 2005

I don't like a lot of CCM either. I listen to it with my son in the car by his choice because I figure it is better than what is on secular radio these days. I point out when I think songs are "off" theologically.

But I have to say that "As the Deer" isn't heretical. This is what I mean:

As the deer panteth for the water
So my soul longeth after Thee -> (both verses Psalm 42)

You alone are my heart's desire -> (Psalm 20:4, Psalm 21:2)
And I long to worship Thee

Chorus:
You alone are my strength, my shield ->(Psalm 28:7)
To you alone may my spirit yield
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship Thee

You're my friend and you are my brother (see my post above)
Even though you are a king
I love you more than any other
So much more than anything
Chorus:

I want you more than gold or silver ->(Job 22:25, Psalm 119:72)
Only you can satisfy ->(Psalm 90:14)
You alone are the real joy giver
And the apple of my eye -> (Proverbs 7:2, Psalm 17:8)

Don't get me wrong: I'd rather sing "O Gladsome Light" or "Only Begotten" any day. But the words and concept of the song is taken from Scripture.

M.

ufonium2 · Jul 17, 2005

Monica said:
If someone has a problem with the terms "Friend" and "Brother" I understand. But know the idea is definitely in Scripture and our own liturgical material.

The word is in Scripture and our own liturgical material, but maybe not the same idea. I mean, 19th century literature and song lyrics are full of the word "gay," but their idea of "gay" is completely different from ours.

Monica child of God 1 · Jul 17, 2005

ufonium2 said:
The word is in Scripture and our own liturgical material, but maybe not the same idea.

Oh I agree. In the church that I came out of we sang this song. But the church was Calvinist. So Jesus was like a brother who would open up a can of eternal whup *** on you if He hadn't chosen you.

M.

choirfiend · Jul 17, 2005

I like Palestrina's version of "As the hart panteth for water, so my soul longeth after Thee, O Lord" AKA "Sicut Cervus" better

I didn't/dont know the lyrics to that song, and as you point out, much of it comes from Scripture. I'm speaking of songs that aren't....There's a lot of drivel, even well-intended drivel, out there. I have musical standards, too, that might be higher than most people's--My career is in music. The three-chord verse-refrain-verse-refrain-bridge-refrain structure of songs drive me insane too.

Melethiel · Jul 17, 2005

choirfiend said:
I like Palestrina's version of "As the hart panteth for water, so my soul longeth after Thee, O Lord" AKA "Sicut Cervus" better

I didn't/dont know the lyrics to that song, and as you point out, much of it comes from Scripture. I'm speaking of songs that aren't....There's a lot of drivel, even well-intended drivel, out there. I have musical standards, too, that might be higher than most people's--My career is in music. The three-chord verse-refrain-verse-refrain-bridge-refrain structure of songs drive me insane too.

Indeed, there are many more chords out there than C, G, and F. Which is why Palestrina and Gesualdo rock. In fact, I avoid contemporary music in general, since my musical standards are sky high. Which is why I'm getting a degree in music.

joyfulthanks · Jul 17, 2005

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Monica, child of God again.

Thanks for taking the time to list the scriptures from which that song is taken. It is a beautiful, heartfelt worship song - one which has blessed me many times.

I, too, don't generally care for CCM. I rarely, if ever, listen to it. But I hate to see everything painted with one broad brush. There are a number of praise and worship songs like this one that come straight from scripture, and some that are quite lovely. I may not like all of the tunes, but I respect the scriptures.

With love in Christ,
Grace

ufonium2 · Jul 17, 2005

All these musicians!!!!

I'm a musicologist; I get paid to be a music snob!

joyfulthanks · Jul 17, 2005

I'm a classicly trained pianist.

choirfiend · Jul 17, 2005

Ufonium,

Whats your specialization?

Grace,

Who's your favorite composer?

(and I wasn't referring to that specific song--other than perhaps than the one verse that was referenced and doesn't have any scriptural basis.)

My favorite non-scriptural hymn? O Gladsome Light.

joyfulthanks · Jul 17, 2005

choirfiend said:
Grace,

Who's your favorite composer?

Chopin, no contest. His music is so beautiful it makes me cry.

Who's yours?

With love in Christ,
Grace

Marjorie · Jul 17, 2005

GraceMercyPeace said:
Chopin, no contest. His music is so beautiful it makes me cry.

Who's yours?

With love in Christ,
Grace

Chopin is my favorite too!

In IC XC,
Marjorie

joyfulthanks · Jul 17, 2005

Marjorie said:
Chopin is my favorite too!

Melethiel · Jul 17, 2005

I love Bach, especially his Easter cantatas. Playing the pipe organ, I get a lot of him.

ufonium2 · Jul 17, 2005

choirfiend said:
Ufonium,

Whats your specialization?

19th-century America, mostly art music and concert life. Exciting stuff, I know.

Melethiel · Jul 17, 2005

ufonium2 said:
19th-century America, mostly art music and concert life. Exciting stuff, I know.

Hymns written in the 19th century are boring. They might have good lyrics, but they all sound the same.

Monica child of God 1 · Jul 17, 2005

choirfiend said:
--other than perhaps than the one verse that was referenced and doesn't have any scriptural basis.

I know the conversation have moved on but what verse doesn't have Scriptural basis?

M.

A problem with one of the titles of Jesus...

Well-Known Member

strives to live eschatologically

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

strives to live eschatologically

Seriously, stop killing kids.

strives to live eschatologically

Senior Veteran

Miserere mei, Domine

The long day is over. Praise the Lord!

Seriously, stop killing kids.

The long day is over. Praise the Lord!

Senior Veteran

The long day is over. Praise the Lord!

Senior Veteran

The long day is over. Praise the Lord!

Miserere mei, Domine

Seriously, stop killing kids.

Miserere mei, Domine

strives to live eschatologically

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency