A modest proposal: "Peace Churches"

WayneinMaine · Jun 2, 2008

It seems that this forum was originally spun off the Baptist forum as a place for "Anabaptists Mennonites and Quakers". Designating the forum "Anabaptists" has led to quite a lot of confusion as, for example, Quakers are not Anabaptists and certain Baptists associate "ana-baptists" from J. M. Carroll's "Trail of Blood" with the 16th century "Anabaptist" movement that spawned the Mennonites, Amish and Hutterites.

I would like to propose a reorientation and renaming of this forum around the themes and concerns that originally led to its splitting off. Plainly it is not exclusively "Anabaptist" (we all acknowledge that Quakers are not Anabaptists), and the commonality between Anabaptists and Quakers, and perhaps Baptist sympathizers, is in pacifism. I would suggest that the group be named "Historic Peace Churches" or "Peace Churches" which would properly include Quakers, Mennonites, Brethren and other groups that have historically set themselves apart from the mainstream by their peace testimony. I think this is the best way to be inclusive and at the same time clear in distinguishing this forum from other forums and avoiding the confusion about what "Anabaptist" means.

See the articles on Peace Churches at:
http://www.wcc-coe.org/wcc/who/dictionary-article8.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_churches
and,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_churches

MrJim · Jun 2, 2008

That was my thoughts...

nzguy · Jun 3, 2008

I wonder how that would go down?

Would calling the forum for peace churches create more confusion.. i.e. people asking what it means to be a 'peace church'?

Guess that wouldn't matter too much cos then you would be able to draw people in through explaining what it means

Crazy Liz · Jun 3, 2008

Are all Brethren peace churches? I don't know that much about Brethren, except Brethren in Christ, which is a peace church.

Other denominations that were previously considered "similar" included Evangelical Covenant and Christian & Missionary Alliance. I'm not sure whether they are peace churches.

JPUSA would be a peace church, I think. So would Sojourners, right? It would be interesting to have some of the newer peace traditions represented.

I just want to be careful we don't exclude anybody unintentionally.

WayneinMaine · Jun 4, 2008

Crazy Liz said:
Are all Brethren peace churches? I don't know that much about Brethren, except Brethren in Christ, which is a peace church.

Other denominations that were previously considered "similar" included Evangelical Covenant and Christian & Missionary Alliance. I'm not sure whether they are peace churches.

JPUSA would be a peace church, I think. So would Sojourners, right? It would be interesting to have some of the newer peace traditions represented.

I just want to be careful we don't exclude anybody unintentionally.

"Historic Peace Churches" is the common designation for the Christian churches that have "historically", over the centuries, opposed participation in warfare. The Brethren Mennonites and Friends met in conference in a "Conference of Pacifist Churches" in 1922, and in the course of time "Historic Peace Churches" stuck to them. There certainly are Brethren and even Mennonites serving in the military (and we all remember that Richard Nixon was a Quaker), but that is a reflection of the changes in all of those churches which have become more diverse, not of their historic position regarding warfare.

I suggested "Peace Churches" specifically to be inclusive of other churches (and believers) that are in assent with the positions of the Historic Peace Churches.

Joykins · Jun 5, 2008

Fellowship of Grace Brethren Churches is not a peace church, doesn't have a peace position, but does descend from Schwartzenau Brethren. Would it be included?

(Not that I belong to that church anymore, but I'd like to know anyway)

CelticRose · Jun 5, 2008

Listening...What definition is there that would be inclusive? Is there one, other than that we all follow Christ...which would then exclude those Quakers who don't...

WayneinMaine · Jun 6, 2008

Joykins said:
Fellowship of Grace Brethren Churches is not a peace church, doesn't have a peace position, but does descend from Schwartzenau Brethren. Would it be included?

(Not that I belong to that church anymore, but I'd like to know anyway)

I've only heard occasional reference to the "Grace Brethren" in the Church of the Brethren circles I'm in. They certainly have their roots in the "historic Peace Churches", I almost wonder if one of the reasons why they split from the church of the Brethren had to do with pacifism.

Certainly (if I understand right) the recent split of the Reformed Brethren Churches from the Grace Brethren had an element of the return to non-resistance in it. So when a church has its roots in a Peace Church but turns from that path what are they?

Why did you leave the Grace Brethren?

WayneinMaine · Jun 6, 2008

CelticRose said:
Listening...What definition is there that would be inclusive? Is there one, other than that we all follow Christ...which would then exclude those Quakers who don't...

Well of course the question has to be asked, inclusive of whom? The folks who were not welcome on the Baptist forum when this group started? What distinguishes the participants in this group from other subgroups on CF? I think time has shown that the interest in this subforum is not specifically focused on historic Anabaptism or even "Trail of Blood" ana-baptism. So lets look at what the forum is and name it accordingly.

Antje · Jun 6, 2008

I'm fine with either name. I haven't been around long enough to know the original reasons for creating this forum. But I can see how perhaps calling this forum "Peace Churches" would include a few extra denominations and create a more meaningful category.

Joykins · Jun 6, 2008

WayneinMaine said:
I've only heard occasional reference to the "Grace Brethren" in the Church of the Brethren circles I'm in. They certainly have their roots in the "historic Peace Churches", I almost wonder if one of the reasons why they split from the church of the Brethren had to do with pacifism.

Certainly (if I understand right) the recent split of the Reformed Brethren Churches from the Grace Brethren had an element of the return to non-resistance in it. So when a church has its roots in a Peace Church but turns from that path what are they?

Why did you leave the Grace Brethren?

We moved. I was a teenager. My parents chose a nondenominational church in our new town.

My understanding is that the Grace Brethren split with the Brethren Church over the direction they wanted their Bible college to go, or something like that.

MrJim · Jun 7, 2008

We have 2 Grace Brethren congregations in our town...since I know both pastors personally they aren't going to be confused with mennonites anytime soon

Joykins · Jun 8, 2008

The Grace Brethren church I grew up in was very similar to Baptist. As in, the only differences seemed to be the trappings--the baptisms and the way we took communion were similar to other Brethren churches but that was about it.

nzguy · Jun 9, 2008

some Brethren churches have the same teaching as my independent baptist church.. with most of the time the only difference being the teaching of a universal church.

This is pretty much the only difference between the anabaptists that I know and the anabaptists in this forum.. teaching is all the same except for what 'church' means.

So I think I will treat that difference more lightly now

WayneinMaine · Jun 9, 2008

nzguy said:
some Brethren churches have the same teaching as my independent baptist church.. with most of the time the only difference being the teaching of a universal church.

This is pretty much the only difference between the anabaptists that I know and the anabaptists in this forum.. teaching is all the same except for what 'church' means.

So I think I will treat that difference more lightly now

Mr Jim alluded to the discussions about the "two distinctives" -separation and non-resistance, which distinguish Anabaptists (Mennonites, Amish, etc.) from Baptists and other Evangelical Protestant churches. Anabaptist churches were rooted in a very different perspective of spirituality and understanding of the scriptures than the Protestants, including the English Baptists which later became the Baptists in America most of us are familiar with. As Anabaptist churches "caved in" and became more and more accommodating and more and more assimilated into the American mainstream (and its religions) many of them were left with little more than the "two distinctives", and many have abandoned them, cutting all cords with their spiritual heritage.

Mind you there were more than these two distinctives that separated Anabaptism from Protestantism and Catholicism. Visit a Hutterite colony and you will get a sense that these are very different sorts of Christians than your local Baptists (independent or otherwise).

A modest proposal: "Peace Churches"

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