A KJO Allegory

TwinCrier · Nov 29, 2004

I do not speak or read Spanish. If a Spanish speaking person says hola to me, I would not normally know what they mean. If someone who speaks both Spanish and English say that hola means hello, I will probably believe them. That doesnt mean the person who said hola didnt say hello to me. They did, but I did not understand it at first. I have enough evidence that I am convinced that hola is the Spanish word for hello. I cannot be convinced that hola doesnt mean hello in Spanish. If you tell me hola means cantaloupe, I will not believe it. The word remains the same.

I do not speak or read Greek. The translators of the KJV did. I believe them. That doesnt mean they cease to be what Gods word. I have enough evidence to convince me that the words translated in the KJV mean what they say. If you tell me Mary was a maiden and not a virgin, or that the word blood shouldnt be there when I know it is, I will disbelieve you. The Word remains the same.

ZiSunka · Nov 29, 2004

My beef with KJV isn't that the words don't mean what they mean, it's that I don't have a clue what they mean without a lot of work to look them up. It's exhausting to have to learn another language in order to read God's word.

It's more like giving someone who only reads English a Spanish Bible and telling them to learn God's word. They have to learn Spanish before they can learn anything at all from the Bible!

The Bible is always supposed to be in the language of the people, and I don't understand Elizabethan English. To me, it's like a second language. It's no good to tell me that only the KJV is acceptable, just like it would be no good to tell me that only the Spanish Bible is acceptable.

And of course, the most accurate Bible of all is the one written in the original languages, so why don't KJV only people learn those languages and read only from them??

Gold Dragon · Nov 29, 2004

TwinCrier said:
I do not speak or read Spanish. If a Spanish speaking person says hola to me, I would not normally know what they mean. If someone who speaks both Spanish and English say that hola means hello, I will probably believe them. That doesnt mean the person who said hola didnt say hello to me. They did, but I did not understand it at first. I have enough evidence that I am convinced that hola is the Spanish word for hello. I cannot be convinced that hola doesnt mean hello in Spanish. If you tell me hola means cantaloupe, I will not believe it. The word remains the same.

As a person who speaks both Spanish and English, hola can also be translated as ...

.. Greetings
.. How are you?
.. Wassup?

Translation between languages is not a one-to-one thing. Here is a list of english homographs (words with multiple meanings). Translators need to consider possible homographs to determine which is the meaning that the author intended. Then there are synonyms (multiple words with same meanings) of each translated word to choose from to find the best word to use. As you can see, a single sentence could easily have several different "correct" translations.

This is without consideration for the fact that many languages have multiple words to describe subtle differences between usages of a single word in a different lanugage. For example, the english word love has four equivalents in the Greek. There are thousands of examples where a single greek word has multiple english equivalents.

Wikipedia - Love

Ancient Greek
Greek distinguishes several different senses in which the word love is used. For example, ancient Greek has the words philia, eros, agape, and storge. However, with Greek as with many other languages, it has been historically difficult to separate the meanings of these words totally, and so we can find examples of agape being used with much the same meaning as eros. At the same time the ancient Greek text of the Bible has examples of the verb agapo being used with the same meaning as phileo.

Agape

Agape is love that God has for mankind. Only God can express this kind of love.

Eros

Eros is passionate love, with sensual desire and longing.

Plato refined his own definition. Although eros is initially felt for a person, with contemplation it becomes an appreciation of the beauty within that person, or even become appreciation of beauty itself. Eros helps the soul recall knowledge of beauty, and contributes to an understanding of spiritual truth. Lovers, artists, and philosophers are all inspired to seek truth by eros.

Philia

Philia, a dispassionate virtuous love, was developed by Aristotle. It includes loyalty to friends, family, and community, and requires virtue, equality and familiarity. Philia is motivated by practical reasons; one or both of the parties benefit from the relationship.

Storge

Storge is natural affection, like that felt by parents for offspring.

ZiSunka · Nov 29, 2004

Storge is natural affection, like that felt by parents for offspring.

Thanks GD! I was trying to remember this word yesterday and could not bring it to mind at all. I could remember the other three, but this one just wasn't there for me.

TwinCrier · Nov 29, 2004

Do the thees and thous REALLY cause you that much trouble?
Wassup, LOL, that's rich. Sometimes hi really means hello, so lets change the word to more closely fit with the original Greek.

Gold Dragon · Nov 29, 2004

lambslove said:
Storge is natural affection, like that felt by parents for offspring.

Thanks GD! I was trying to remember this word yesterday and could not bring it to mind at all. I could remember the other three, but this one just wasn't there for me.

No prob.

ZiSunka · Nov 29, 2004

TwinCrier said:
Do the thees and thous REALLY cause you that much trouble?
Wassup, LOL, that's rich. Sometimes hi really means hello, so lets change the word to more closely fit with the original Greek.

Ancient Greek didn't have a word for hello.

Ave Maria · Nov 29, 2004

lambslove said:
Ancient Greek didn't have a word for hello.

Surely they had some form of greeting?

ps139 · Nov 29, 2004

she may have been sarcastic

ZiSunka · Nov 30, 2004

ps139 said:
she may have been sarcastic

No sarcasm, they really didn't greet each other the way we do. They'd just walk into a room and start interacting, no salutation was necessary.

It's the Romans that perfected the saluation. Salutations come from a latin tradition of an official or higher up entering a room and telling the people to "listen up." Later it became a form of friendly greeting, but prior to that it was always a command to be given respect during a speech or address.

Even Europeans didn't start using "hello" until the 18th century. It comes from "holler" which means to shout loudly, just as the Romans did when they were announcing their entrance into a room. Many Europeans still believe it to be a crass and low-class way to greet someone, prefering "good day" or some form of it to greet people.

A KJO Allegory

TwinCrier

Double Blessed and spreading the gospel

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ZiSunka

It means 'yellow dog'

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Gold Dragon

Senior Veteran

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ZiSunka

It means 'yellow dog'

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TwinCrier

Double Blessed and spreading the gospel

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Gold Dragon

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ZiSunka

It means 'yellow dog'

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Ave Maria

Ave Maria Gratia Plena

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ps139

Ab omni malo, libera nos, Domine!

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ZiSunka

It means 'yellow dog'

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