Sorry, it's taken me a while, but here are answers to your objections.
rnmomof7 said:
(Ex. 21:10) If he takes for himself another woman..."
There were CIVIL laws , not spiritual.They were the laws of Moses .
They were laws to have an orderly society .
There is a problem when you confuse civil law with Gods law.
Civil laws regulate the sinful behavior of men to protect the innocent or the victims.
Though the Law was broken down into three catagories (Moral, Civil, Ceremonial), there is one lawgiver. All recognized law ultimately emanates from one lawgiver, God (Jas. 4: 12,) "For the LORD is our judge,
the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD
is our king; he will save us." (Isa. 33: 22). God's law is perfect and alteration is forbidden, it matters not the particular period or age (Deut. 4: 2, Rev. 22: 18, 19, 2 Jn. 9-11). To say that the law that gives provision for a man taking another wife is not applicable because it's civil law is ridiculous.
These laws were given to Moses by God. "These are the laws that you (Moses) are to set before them." (Ex. 21:1).
Again, one must ask, why would God make rules of civil conduct for a conduct He forbids? Where in these laws are the penalties for taking another wife? God gives the rules and the penalty if the rule is broken, but there is no penalty with taking another wife, only the provision for her. There was nothing wrong with polygamy in the civil realm or in the moral realm. You again must offer proof of such.
rnmomof7 said:
It was not a moral but a political or civil one for the good ordering of the state. Among such laws were those of tolerance or permission, which did not approve of the evil things concerned, but only suffered them for the prevention of greater evil--as when the sea makes a breach into the land, if it cannot possibly be stopped, the best course is to make it as narrow as possible..........These laws tolerated what God condemned, and that for the purpose of preventing greater evils.
You will have to show that God condemned it. In 2 Sam. 12, He calls it a blessing.
[/quote]Just as divorce for uncleanness was purely a "concession" that was necessary at that time because of Israel's "hardness of heart" and the "chaotic conditions" that resulted from their attitude. God "allowed" easy divorce and polygamy (even though both were really adultery and a violation of the Seventh Commandment) but He did not "legitimate" it.[/quote]
Divorce for specific reasons was a legitimate allowance which wa provided for in the law. OT men were abusing the allowance. You will again have to prove that polygamy is adultery. Can you cite one verse which shows this to be true? Biblically, adultery is the taking of another man's wife or breaking a covenant commitment (vow).
rnmomof7 said:
How do you deal with Deuteronomy 17:17, God specifically gave a command for the future kings of the nation of Israel: not to multiply wives to himself... This is an explicit command from God against polygamy.
This command isn't agianst polygamy per se. God warns that the kings should not multiply wives to himself,
lest his heart be turned away. This is not against polygamy as such or the sexual connection, but a warning against the danger of apostasy in Israel's leaders. You most also note the same in connection with amassing horses and large amounts of gold and silver. Later we see that Israel's greatest kings married many wives and amassed great amounts great hordes of gold and silver. Both wives and riches were to said to be God's blessing. Thus this text is a warning of the dangers of having many wives and much riches. It is not a prohibition of either, but a warning to realize the dangers in each case.
Also, this is because Israel is asking for themselves a king like the surrounding pagan nations. A king which undoubtedtly served pagan gods along with the kings wives who worship those same gods. Those kings also conquered for excess, taking wives, horses and gold/silver to further increase their dominance in the region.
rnmomof7 said:
David sinned every time he took an additional wife - Deut 17:17
Scripture doesn't say this. In fact there is
not one passage that demonstrates that when David took an additional wife it was considered sinful (except in the case of him taking the wife of a married man). Can you show me a passage that deals with David that shows God considered him reprobate in the act of acquiring another wife or concubine?
In fact David is told this by God, "And
I gave thee thy masters house,
and thy masters wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little,
I would moreover have given unto thee more of such things." (2 Sam. 12:9)
In fact as stated before Scripture tells us that David did what was right in the sight of the Lord, and had not turned aside from anything He commanded him all the days of his life, except in the case of Uriah the Hittite.(1 Kings 15:5)
rnmomof7 said:
David sinned when he committed adultery with Bathsheba
Absolutley, this is shown in Scripture, "Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword,
and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him
with the sword of the children of Ammon." 2 Sam. 12 :9
rnmomof7 said:
David sinned when he had Uriah killed
Yes, this is shown in Scripture, "Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight?
thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him
with the sword of the children of Ammon." 2 Sam. 12 :9
rnmomof7 said:
David sinned when he took Bathsheba as still another wife
Yes, again in Scripture,"Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me,
and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife. (2 Sa. 12:10)
rnmomof7 said:
Why didn't God punish David for these sins immediately ? You can not assume because there was no immediate punishment that God ordained or approved of Polygamy
God immediatly punished David for the sin with Bathsheba, the only real sin involved. He did not punish David for polygamy because there is no sin of polygamy. In fact to say, as you have, that David sinned everytime he took an additional wife is to make God the author of David's sin, for Scripture tells us, "And
I gave thee thy masters house,
and thy masters wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little,
I would moreover have given unto thee more of such things." (2 Sam. 12:9)
Scripture is showing us just the opposite of what you are trying to impose upon Scripture.
Here are some other passages in connection with David:
David walks in "integrity...truth...hates wickedness,: (Ps. 26:1-12).
This is one of many passages where David makes these claims for himself, and other passages (as noted above) affirm this is true of him. What do we make of this in light of polygamy and concubinage? It is obvious that nothing about polygamy and concubinage is inconsistent with "Integrity..thruth..hating wickedness." It is man who demonizes polygamy, not God. David had countless sex partners. Yet he was a righteous man, greatly annointed and highly favore by God.
A man can "Cleanse his way by heeding God's word,"[/b] (Ps. 119:9).
If polygamy and concubinage were in any sense "unclean" then how do we make sense of this following verse?
David hid God's word in his heart that he might not sin against God, (Ps. 119:11). Did God's word not enlighten him about the sin of polygamy and concubinage? Obviously these things were not "sin" and God's word gave David no hint that God was in any way displeased with his having many women.
"I restrain my feet from every evil way, that I might keep your word."(Ps. 119:101)
Was David "keeping God's word," when he had sex with his many wives and concubines? Was there no evil way in this practice?
"Through your precepts I get understanding, therefore I hate every false way" (Ps. 119:104).
God's "precepts" did not give David any "understanding" that polygamy and concubinage were, in any sense, a "false way."
I esteem right all Thy precepts concerning everything. I hate every evil way." (Ps. 119:128)
David did not hate polygamy and concubinage, therefore God's precepts did not provide him with an idea that polygamy and concubinage were wrong. David followed what was right in "everything." How come he did not have a clue that God did not like polygamy and concubinage?
rnmomof7 said:
There was a direct connection between the lust of David having many wives and his desire for Bethsheba
The only direct connection is that they were all women! David went about gaining wives legally and Bathsheba was not his to posses.
rnmomof7 said:
Is there any record that after He had repented that he took one more wife , or that he replaced his concubines?
The Scripture doesn't say either way. It does however show that after the birth of Solomon, there were other children born to him that were not by Bathsheba. These could be from prior wives or from new ones. They are listed in the same order in the following passages.
"And these be the names of those that were born unto him in Jerusalem; Shammuah, and Shobab, and Nathan, and Solomon, Ibhar also, and Elishua, and Nepheg, and Japhia, and Elishama, and Eliada, and Eliphalet." (2 Sam. 5:14-16)
"And these were born unto him in Jerusalem; Shimea, and Shobab, and Nathan, and Solomon,
four, of Bathsheba the daughter of Ammiel: Ibhar also, and Elishama, and Eliphelet, And Nogah, and Nepheg, and Japhia, And Elishama, and Eliada, and Eliphelet, nine. These were all the sons of David, beside the sons of the concubines, and Tamar their sister." (1 Chron. 3:5-9)
"Now these are the names of his children which he had in Jerusalem; Shammua, and Shobab, Nathan, and Solomon, and Ibhar, and Elishua, and Elpalet, and Nogah, and Nepheg, and Japhia, and Elishama, and Beeliada, and Eliphalet." ( 1 Chron. 14:5).
rnmomof7 said:
Is there any record that God told David to take these wives
Is this the standard now? God must individually instruct every male to take a specific wife and then name her to in Scripture to be legitamite? If so then you are making standards that even God does not require. If this is the case it will have to be proven by Scripture for God nowhere makes it his standard.
Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines (1 Kg. 11:3). God promised to bless Solomon if he walks in all Gods laws. But not a syllable of censure about his extreme polygamy and concubinage. The only censure is his marrying pagan women against Gods commands, (11:2 4,5), and that he turned his heart away from the Lord, (11:4,9,10,11,33, 9:4, 6) And what sense does it make to think that God was incensed about Solomons marriages to pagan wives and thus rebuke him for it, yet He never rebukes him for marrying multiple Israelite wives?
rnmomof7 said:
Could you tell me the name of his Israelite wives?
Scripture doesn't give a indication of each and every one of his wives names and their origin of birth. Again, Sccripture makes it clear that Solomon's sin was
marrying pagan wives,
"Solomon sinned by these things..pagan wives caused him to sin" (Neh. 13:26). His sin was not having 700 wives. It was in having pagan wives.
Israel transgressed against God by marrying pagan women (Neh. 13: 27). Because of this rebuke, they covenented with God to put
these wives away, (Ezra 10: 3,11,14, 44). This has nothing to do with polygamy. They put away only the pagan wives that God's law forbade them to wed.
If polygamy itself is a sin, why did God never legislate against it and why do we not having a single example in all of Scripture, of a godly man or group of men, such as here, learning that God was displeased with multiple wives, then repenting and "putting away all of their wives but the first one?" And if polygamy is wrong, why require that these Israelites put away only the pagan wives? Why not requie them to divorce all their extra wives? This Ezra passage proves they would have done so if God had desired it. But non ever did such a thing, even though polygamy was openly practiced, even to extremedegree, God never intimated in any way, that He was displeased with such a practice.
"And Shechaniah the son of Jehiel, one of the sons of Elam, answered and said unto Ezra, We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: yet now there is hope in Israel concerning this thing. Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such
as are born of them, according to the counsel of my Lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law." (Ezra 10:2)
"In those days also saw I Jews that had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, and of Moab: And their children spake half in the speech of Ashdod, and could not speak in the Jews language, but according to the language of each people. And I contended with them, and cursed them, and smote certain of them, and plucked off their hair, and made them swear by God, saying, Ye shall not give your daughters unto their sons, nor take their daughters unto your sons, or for yourselves.
Did not Solomon king of Israel sin by these things? yet among many nations was there no king like him, who was beloved of his God, and God made him king over all Israel: nevertheless even him did outlandish women cause to sin. Shall we then hearken unto you to do all this great evil, to transgress against our God in marrying strange wives?" (Neh: 13: 23-26)
rnmomof7 said:
Could you tell me how God blessed this polygamy? What was the fruit of it?
If you can not see the fruit of polygamy you just choose not to see it.
Look at the problems with the off springs of these relationships.
There was hatred and jealousy in the off spring of the woman of David.
We see the same kind of jealousy in the children of Jacob.
We see plots to kill have siblings by the mother of another.
God is not the author of confusion. If this was a blessed practice , the result would not have been as hateful and violent .
One has only to look at a few monogamous relationships to see that this line of reasoning dosen't stand up to scrutiny.
As noted earlier Adam and Eve (monogamous)had Cain and Able. Cain killed his brother out of jealousy and this happened within the "quintisential" monogamous marriage.
Also Isaac and rebecca (monogamous): Two nations are in your womb. Two peoples are quarrelling while still within you. But one shall surpass the other and the older shall serve the younger (Gn 25:23).
Esau hated his younger brother Jacob on account of the blessing that his father had given him. Thinking that this might result in murder, Jacob was sent away to find a wife among their kinsmen in Haran where he accumulated a fortune. Esau also became a wealthy man. The two sons followed different paths of life.
The story of these twin boys would later be interpreted to represent the disputes between Judaism and Christianity. For the first one hundred years of its existence, Christianity was a sect within Judaism.
Add to this that Rebecca decieved her husband into giving the birthright unto Jacob (the deceiver) as foretold by God. And then Jacob passed his deceiving ways unto his children.
Noah's (monogamous) son Ham did some kind of sexual offense so vile (Gen. 9:21), that Noah imposed a curse upon the seed of Ham (the father of Canaan). "Cursed be Canaan! The lowsest of slaves will he be to his brothers." (vs. 25)
So you can see that families of monogamous parents have just as much strife as those of polygamous families. The more people involved whether they are spouses or children, the more possibility there is for strife. Jealousy, anger and the like are just the condition of humanity.
Because of the size of this post, I will submit the rest in a seperate post.
Eph. 3:20