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If you feel too ill to respond, no worries, but hopefully you continue to recover.
Back to the convo ... so if you were healed in the manner in which you requested, is the only explanation a miracle of God ? Were you serious in that you would "repent/recant" should your standards be met in such an instance ? And what would you repent/recant of/from ?
Why would you credit God as the reason and not some other explanation ? And you say you couldn't prove it ... could you "prove it" to another believer ?Yes. I would only be able to credit God with my healing, had it happened. No, I wouldn't be able to prove that.
My temp was over 102 when I wrote that post, and I hadn't slept well in 3 days.
Why would you credit God as the reason and not some other explanation ? And you say you couldn't prove it ... could you "prove it" to another believer ?
And this proves what, exactly?
The Bible is a very special Book...
So are you calling sunlover1 a contemptuous narcissist for applying the Bible to herself and her life?
It most assuredly IS about each and every mother's son and daughter ever born...
You're not answering all my questions.There is no way to prove something like that. You know that. I would not even attempt to.
You're not answering all my questions.
Why would you credit God as being the reason in such an instance ?
And no, I don't know that you can't "prove" something like that. What are your standards for proof ? Can you prove whether or not your local grocery store has apples ?
One of the reasons you may not, is because you'd choose to use critical thinking in an examination of the truth. A critical thinker may realize, "I'm already biased to view things a certain way, so what if I'm wrong ? What other explanation is there for this ?"First of all, I was not healed, which means I'm still not feeling well. Secondly, if I were healed after posting a prayer request on a Christian forum, myself being a Christian, it would only be reasonable that I would give God credit for it. Why would I not?
Why can't you prove who healed you or how you were healed ? We can demonstrate who-did-what quite often. I can probably provide substantial evidence as to who or what is responsible for any number of events or occurences (sp).As far as proof, that would not be possible. I would be objective healed, but I could not prove who or how, which is also why I wouldn't try to sway other Christians with stories about my hypothetical healing, which directs the conversation back to the OP. . .
TillICollapse, good luck with your inquiry. Pride and self awareness rarely go hand in hand. Those who are proud can easily find fault in others, yet even when they look in a mirror they quickly forget what they look like.One of the reasons you may not, is because you'd choose to use critical thinking in an examination of the truth. A critical thinker may realize, "I'm already biased to view things a certain way, so what if I'm wrong ? What other explanation is there for this ?"
Are you suggesting that if you were a Hindu, on a Hindu forum, that you may give credit to another entity ?
Why can't you prove who healed you or how you were healed ? We can demonstrate who-did-what quite often. I can probably provide substantial evidence as to who or what is responsible for any number of events or occurences (sp).
I think what you are showing with your perspective, is that you are in the same camp that you, yourself, are pointing out as being most likely mistaken. One person's personal threshold of belief, is to babble word salad and claim it's a miracle of God. Whether it is REALLY God or not, is seemingly debatable. Another person's personal threshold of belief is to be healed in a specific way, in a specific manner, and then it's a miracle of God as well. Whether it is or not, again, is debatable. Thus, the method you are using to determine what is true, seems self centered. Furthermore, if you don't believe it would be possible to prove your own belief, then what is your point in trying to get others to do the same ? Is that really exercising critical thinking and a desire for the truth, or is it serving your own self ? Are you desiring to know what IS true concerning all of reality ... or just what is true for you ?
Please note, that I am not trying to dump on you for desiring to be healed in a certain manner, and requesting that people demonstrate their claims. I am discussing what this reveals about *you* and the answers to your own questions in the OP, etc.
I was not calling anyone proud, or arrogant, or even humble for that matter.TillICollapse, good luck with your inquiry. Pride and self awareness rarely go hand in hand. Those who are proud can easily find fault in others, yet even when they look in a mirror they quickly forget what they look like.
There are many humble people who hear from God and just accept it, even though they cannot explain it. There are many humble people who do not hear from God, yet they accept that others do. It takes a special arrogance to deny the testimony of faithful and fruitful Christians over the centuries that God still speaks.
I agree, you weren't.I was not calling anyone proud, or arrogant, or even humble for that matter.
TillICollapse, good luck with your inquiry. Pride and self awareness rarely go hand in hand. Those who are proud can easily find fault in others, yet even when they look in a mirror they quickly forget what they look like.
There are many humble people who hear from God and just accept it, even though they cannot explain it. There are many humble people who do not hear from God, yet they accept that others do. It takes a special arrogance to deny the testimony of faithful and fruitful Christians over the centuries that God still speaks.
Why can't you prove who healed you or how you were healed ?
I think what you are showing with your perspective, is that you are in the same camp that you, yourself, are pointing out as being most likely mistaken.
You said it would not be possible, so you can explain your claim if you like. However we can also avoid going in circles ... I will drop it.How would you prove it?
We can drop this part of the convo.The OP is addressing God speaking directly to people today. As I have explained, I (along with most of Christendom) hold that to be an errant view; however, I never said that God did not or would not physically heal people today. There's the distinction.
I found a good teaching on the points that I have been advocating by John Piper. In his definition of NT prophecy,
Prophecy in this “third category” (the New Testament gift of prophecy) is a regulated message or report in human words usually made to the gathered believers based on a spontaneous, personal revelation from the Holy Spirit for the purpose of edification, encouragement, consolation, conviction or guidance but not necessarily free from a mixture of human error, and thus needing assessment on the basis of the apostolic (Biblical) teaching and mature spiritual wisdom."
I believe that hearing from God in prayer is essentially the same, "a spontaneous, personal revelation from the Holy Spirit for the purpose of edification, encouragement, consolation, conviction or guidance but not necessarily free from a mixture of human error".
The revelation may be audible, internal voice, feelings, etc. The Bible certainly does not forbid hearing from God in these ways.
Although John Piper is generally a sound expository preacher, his views on prophecy are off base.
Prophecy is never described in scripture as a feeling that is put into human words. Quite the opposite. That is the definition of false prophecy...
Prophecy is audibly hearing the very words of God
Nowhere in the NT is the nature of prophecy redefined.
Paul told the Corinthians to test prophecies, not because it is a mixture of genuine prophecy and human error, but because false prophets had infiltrated the church (2 Peter 2:1), just as they have today.
Even if someone did claim to audibly receive a prophecy today, I would dispute it. The bible says the age of prophecy is over (Heb 1:1-2, Eph 2:20, 1 Cor 13:9).
But anyway we are not talking about prophecy, we are talking about God's common means of speaking to believers today.
You are declaring things as true, that the Bible does not.Although John Piper is generally a sound expository preacher, his views on prophecy are off base.
Prophecy is never described in scripture as a feeling that is put into human words. Quite the opposite. That is the definition of false prophecy...
(Ezekiel 2:2, Gen 17:1, Joshua 1:1-2 etc). The boy Samuel, when he first started out as a prophet, even mistakenly thought it was the priest Eli speaking to him (1 Sam 3). Prophecy is never described as a feeling. If it comes from your mind it is regarded as a false prophecy (Jer 14:14, Jer 23:26)
Once the revelation is received the prophet's duty is to pass the message on word for word. It usually takes the form 'The Lord said "<exact words here>".' If the Lord didn't actually say those words then all the passages in scripture that say 'The Lord said' are a lie. If the prophet uses his own words rather than God's words he is declared a false prophet and put to death (Deut 18:20)
Nowhere in the NT is the nature of prophecy redefined. Paul uses the same word (prophétés) to describe NT prophets (eg 1 Cor 14:29) as he does OT prophets (eg Rom 3:21). Prophets in the NT audibly heard the voice of God in the same way as OT prophets. The very words spoken by God are often recorded for us (eg Acts 9:10-16, Acts 21:10-11, Acts 10:13-19).
Being the very word of God all prophecy is infallible and authoritative. NT prophecy had a very important role in the early church due to the absence of the NT canon. It was more important than teaching and 2nd only to apostleship (1 Cor 12:28). How can it be more important than bible based teaching if prophecy is error prone and non-binding as Piper suggests?
Paul told the Corinthians to test prophecies, not because it is a mixture of genuine prophecy and human error, but because false prophets had infiltrated the church (2 Peter 2:1), just as they have today.
Even if someone did claim to audibly receive a prophecy today, I would dispute it. The bible says the age of prophecy is over (Heb 1:1-2, Eph 2:20, 1 Cor 13:9-10).
But anyway we are not talking about prophecy, we are talking about God's common means of speaking to believers today.
Can you show your following statements are proven in the Bible:
1. "Prophecy is audibly hearing the very words of God"
Where does the Bible say this is always true?"
Where does the Bible define false prophecy as feeling that is put into human words?
Where in the Bible is the Holy Spirit speaking to our minds forbidden/impossible?
Does the New Covenant tell us to kill false prophets or continue in the OT laws which tell us to kill false prophets? If you really believe that this is applicable today, are you willing to kill those who say "God told me..."? If not, then don't try to trick us by using verses that you don't believe or apply.
Does the Bible tell us this is the only way to hear God's voice? Do you know how Agabus and the daughters of Phillip heard God's voice. Do you know if prophecies in the Corinthian church were audibly received?
It's time to put up or shut up.
I've already given you several examples of where prophecy is described as the Lord speaking actual words which the prophet hears and quotes verbatim. I can give you dozens more if you wish. There are no examples of prophecy being described as feelings or impressions popping into a prophet's head which he then verbalizes using his own words.
As I said...If it comes from your own mind it is regarded as a false prophecy (Jer 14:14, Jer 23:26). If the prophet uses his own words rather than God's words he is declared a false prophet and was put to death (Deut 18:20)
With God nothing is impossible. But your argument that God speaks through feelings because such a method is not impossible is the common fallacy of an argument from silence. It is not impossible for God to communicate via smoke signals or shapes in the clouds. But does He communicate in such a way? Are there any biblical instances of such revelations, let alone be the common method of revelation?
I never suggested that we should kill false prophets today. I was simply quoting what Deut 18:20 said. The point being that false prophecy is a very serious sin and from the condemnation it gets in the bible is clearly not something to be taken lightly.
Agabus quoted verbatim what the Holy Spirit said:
So yes Agabus's prophecy was given in the same manner as OT prophecies. No details are given about how the prophecies were received by Philips daughters or the Corinthians, but there is no reason to suppose it was any way other than the normal biblical method.Acts 21:11 “This is what the Holy Spirit says: ‘In this way the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’”.
Indeed. I have quoted extensively from scripture to support my argument. You haven't. The burden of proof now lies with you to prove that God gives new revelation via our feelings.
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