3-Year Penances

Often people sin, and truely repent, and come back, and sin again, and come back, and get cought up in a vicious cycle that's very hard to break. For very serious sins, sometimes these penences would be given. For a certain amount of time people would have to be like the catechumens and leave before the Liturgy of the Eucharist (after the readings), and then be like the kneelers who could attend be not receive, and finally receive again. What this does is it gets it firmly in your mind that what you did has cut you off from God, and when you finally can come back, you're a lot less likely to leave again, you appreciate the gravity of the situation. Whether this is appropriate depends on the culture & person. If it was done widely today, people'd probably cheer & say, I don't have to go to Church for years... but in some times people would weep and weep at this terrible punishment. In those situations it's very powerful for helping people to repent and so saving their souls.

I could be wrong, but I think three-year penances are ancient history. I have seen them mentioned in some of the old canons (canons of the Pre-Schism Church, BTW), but I have never heard of one being imposed simply for visiting a non-Orthodox church.

My particular bishop seems to be making every effort to seek dialogue with the RCC. While we are not allowed to receive the Eucharist in an RC church, I really do not think mere attendance would bring any kind of censure.

I am afraid this thread will bring a lot of unpleasantness to the surface, so don't expect me to do a lot of posting on it. I am one of those darned, soft-on-the-Roman-Catholics Orthodox, which makes me unpopular in some circles.

May God reunite us soon!

humblejoe said:

Well, this practice of long, drawn-out "penances" and keeping repentant people from Communion seems almost vicious to me, if indeed Christ is present in the Eucharist.

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Dearest Humblejoe:

My Joy, Christ is Risen!

I read the true story of a boy who came home in tears and asked to be spanked because he had done something wrong at school. It's like that with the Church. Those who are sincerely repentant are wiling to do anything to make things right.

I felt the same way you did regarding penances, and that feeling kept me from joining the Church, until I changed. However, the priest explained that he can really tell when a person is repentant. These penitents accept their penance as a well-deserved punishment. Are any of us worthy to receive Communion? No. But Christ bids to come "With fear of God, and faith and love, draw near." -- Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. Christ bids us to come for the remission of our sins and for eternal life.

One interesting fact about penances (and I was briefly penanced once) is that when the penance is released and the Priest allows that penitent to once again receive the Precious Body and Blood, it's difficult. I mean, the Priest has to literally coax you to receive. Most penanced people still want to be penanced. They know that they are sinners, and they are in tears. St. Peter had grooves in his cheeks because he cried so much after denying Christ three time.

Hope this helps.

Forgive me a sinner!

YSIC

Elizabeth

A priest can always give someone special permission from the norms... I have special permission to fast less because I live with others and can't buy my own food. So the priest is going to use discretion with these things, most of the time he'll tell people to go have Communion and to trust God that they're forgiven, he'll yell at you for listening to Satan saying that we shouldn't have Communion since we're unworthy, thus preventing us from having healing. But some people, especially more holy people, can be snapped out of addiction and repetitive sin by measures like these. It's not like the person imposing these punishments is someone you don't know, it's your Father who knows you better than anyone, and is doing it out of love. Periods in years are never heard of anymore. They were the norm when the Church was under great persecution and it was necessary to be tight to avoid losing everything.

Dearest Humblejoe:

My joe, Christ is Risen!

I just received this from a friend. Where he got this I don't know. But maybe this will help:

One day a while back, a man, his heart heavy with grief, was walking in
the woods. As he thought about his life this day, he knew many
things were not right. He thought about those who had lied about him back
when he had a job.His thoughts turned to those who had stolen his things and cheated
him. He remembered family that had passed on. His mind turned to the
illness he had that no one could cure. His very soul was filled with anger,
resentment and frustration. Standing there this day, searching for answers he could not find,
knowing all else had failed him, he knelt at the base of an old oak tree to seek the One he knew would always be there. And with tears in his eyes, he prayed: "Lord-You have done wonderful things for me in this life. You have told me to do many things for you, and I happily obeyed. Today, you have told me to forgive. I am sad, Lord, because I cannot. I don't know how.It is not fair Lord. I don't deserve these wrongs that were done against me
and I shouldn't have to forgive. As perfect as Your way is Lord,this one thing I cannot do, for I don't know how to forgive. My anger is so deep Lord, I fear I may not hear You, but I pray that You teach me to do this one thing I cannot do - Teach me to Forgive." As he knelt there in the quiet shade of that old oak tree, he felt something fall onto his shoulder. He opened his eyes. Out of the corner of one eye, he saw something red on his shirt. He could not turn to see what it was because where the oak tree had been was a large square piece of wood in the ground. He raised his head and saw two feet held to the wood with a large spike through them He raised his head more, and tears came to his eyes as he saw Jesus hanging on a cross. He saw spikes in His hands, a gash in His side, a torn and battered body, deep thorns sunk into His head. Finally he saw the suffering and pain on His precious face. As their eyes met, the man's tears turned to sobbing and Jesus began to speak.
"Have you ever told a lie," He asked? The man answered "Yes Lord." "Have you ever been given too much change and kept it?" The man answered "Yes Lord." And the man sobbed more and more. "Have you ever taken something from work that wasn't yours?" Jesus asked. And the man answered "yes Lord." "Have you ever sworn, using my Father's name in vain?" The man crying now answered "yes Lord." As Jesus asked many more times, "have you ever" the man's crying became uncontrollable for he could only answer "yes Lord"
Then Jesus turned His head from one side to the other and the man felt something fall on his other shoulder. He looked and saw that it was the blood of Jesus. When he looked back up, his eyes met those of Jesus and there was a look of love the man had never seen or known before. Jesus said, "I didn't deserve this either, but I forgive you." It may be hard to see how you're going to get through something, but when you look back in life, you realize how true this statement is. Read the first line slowly and let it sink in. This is simple and important. Read on...this first line is deep.If God brings you to it - He will bring you through it.
Lord I love You and I need You, come into my heart today.For without You I can do nothing.


Author unknown....

humblejoe said:

I don't understand what this has to do with a 3-year penance, exactly, but it did somewhat remind me of the Old English poem, Dream of the Rood.

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Dearest Humblejoe: Christ is in our midst.

MONASTICISM AND PENANCE

It's the tears of repentance. We need to see our sinfulness and not feel sorry for ourselves. That's true metanoia. Monastics in Orthodoxy enter a monastery to repent for their sins. You might say, what have they done? They may be better than we are. However, we all are sinners in need of repentance. If we didn't have the monastics praying and fasting, our world would really be in a mess. Some monastics who live by themselves as hermits only come to the Church to receive Holy Communion at Pascha and the Nativity of Christ. And these are holy men and women.

ST. MARY OF EGYPT -- HER PENANCES

Look at St. Mary of Egypt, who was a converted prostitute. (Our Coptic friend can probably tell us more about this great saint.) She prayed and fasted in the desert for at least 30 years. Her clothes rotted away and she had no clothes but the hair of her head. St. Mary of Egypt only received Holy Communion once just before she died. Our Lord provided for her and miraculously sent St. Zozima to the desert where he encountered her, covered her with his cape, and brought her Holy Communion.

Your sister in Christ,

Elizabeth

P.S. Perhaps this whole subject shouldn't have been brought up as penances are rarely ever used today. And the person penanced will rarely talk about it. Yes, I have heard about people leaving the Church because they would not accept a penance, but they didn't care. They lost their faith and there was nothing the priest could do. They were scandalizing the faithful; it was better that they leave. So the Priest had to excommunicate them with the Bishop's approval.

Maximus said:

I could be wrong, but I think three-year penances are ancient history. I have seen them mentioned in some of the old canons (canons of the Pre-Schism Church, BTW), but I have never heard of one being imposed simply for visiting a non-Orthodox church.

My particular bishop seems to be making every effort to seek dialogue with the RCC. While we are not allowed to receive the Eucharist in an RC church, I really do not think mere attendance would bring any kind of censure.

I am afraid this thread will bring a lot of unpleasantness to the surface, so don't expect me to do a lot of posting on it. I am one of those darned, soft-on-the-Roman-Catholics Orthodox, which makes me unpopular in some circles.

May God reunite us soon!

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I have never heard of such a thing either. I don't think mere attendence at a non-Orthodox Church will bring in any sort of censure either. That is the problem with the canons, they are pastorial tools and are not law as such, and to quote them as such is not correct.
Jeff the Finn

jeffthefinn said:

I have never heard of such a thing either. I don't think mere attendence at a non-Orthodox Church will bring in any sort of censure either. That is the problem with the canons, they are pastorial tools and are not law as such, and to quote them as such is not correct.
Jeff the Finn

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Dearest Jeff:

My joy - Christ is Risen.

Please no more vague flames.

Have you read any of the Holy Canons. The priest showed me some. They have anathamas attached. These are not frivilous pastoral tools, they are laws. My priest told me that he has to follow the Holy Canons. If someone sees a fortune teller - according to the canons, they are penanced for SEVEN YEARS. (Do you want to hear a true story about that one.) Our priests are strict out here in my town.

In fact the term "canonized" according to the canons means to incur the anathama. If some living person is canonized then they are under the curse - penanced, excommunicated, or defrocked. If some dead person is canonized then they are sainted. Go figure.

Your sister in Christ,

Elizabeth

We need to be careful in the way we interpret the Canons of the Church. Remember, that the majority of the canons were written to prevent heresy from entering into the Orthodox Church. I am sure that no priest today will give a penance of 3 years because i stepped foot into say a Roman Catholic Church.

If one wants to get into a discussion about the Canons of the Orthodox Church, when it comes to penance it is to the final disgression of the priest to what the penance will be. True today, as it was 1000 years ago.

Yes, some canons have a specified penance, but we have to remember the real reason why people go to confession. Confession is not a process by which we wipe the slate clean of sin. and start again, but should be seen as a healing process. A spiritual father/mother would guide their child as much as they possibly can, but it is up to the child to make the final decissions. If we choose to transgress, then we much be aware of our responsibilities and the consequences associated with them. And penance can serve as part of the healing process.

Dearest Mtown:

I agree with you. My priest told me that when people don't want to accept a penance, he knows that they really aren't sorry. A girl had an abortion, the priest said that he had to penance her. She became very angry. He told her that if she received Holy Communion with that anger she would be drinking unto her d*amnation. She didn't care. She had her rights.

But in the Corinthians, St. Paul tells us about people dying from receiving Holy Communion unworthily.

He also told me that when people embrace a penance with humility, that when they are told that the penance has been lifted and that they are free to receive Holy Communion, that they have to be pushed to receive it. They really begin to see how holy the Holy Eucharist is. They really have their eyes opened. They become holy. God blesses our obedience and humility. The Saints in the Russian prisons couldn't receive Holy Communion, but our Lord sustained them.

It takes faith to see the value of penance.

Yours in Christ our God,
Elizabeth

Just found this saying of the desert fathers:

The Sayings of the Desert Fathers, trans. by Bendicta Ward, slg, Cistercian Publications, 1984. It is available through Amazon.com

Abba Poemen said:

12: A brother questioned Abba Poemen saying, 'I have committed a great sin and I want to do penance for three years.' The old man said to him, 'That is a lot.' The brother said, 'For one year?' The old man said again, 'That is a lot.' Those who were present said, 'For forty days?' He said again, 'That is a lot.' He added, 'I myself say that if a man repents with his whole heart and does not intend to commit the sin any more, God will accept him after only three days.'

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Hope this helps.

Yours truly in Christ,
Elizabeth