12 questions for Calvinists

SoaringEagle said:

I have 12 questions I came across. Does anyone have any answers?....

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I'll give it a quick go.

1. It is often said by Calvinists that dead men can't respond. As you say, "you are dead in your trespasses & sins." Eph. 2:1. In Romans 6, it says that "in the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus." If being dead in sin means one can't respond to God then does being dead to sin mean that the Christian cannot respond to sin?

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Read back through the verses preceding Rom 6:11. We are dead to sin...it no longer holds dominion over us. It doesn't mean we are no longer able to sin, only that we are no longer unable to not sin.

2. Even though God does perfectly know all human thoughts, can man have thoughts that have never been thought before (i.e. ex-nihilo thoughts)?

If these thoughts are not free (e.g., they are determined) then has God caused all thoughts, including evil ones, which would make God the author of sin and evil and man not responsible?

If, on the other hand, these thoughts are free, then how can God remain sovereign according to the Calvinist definition of sovereignty?

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I've always loved the way the Westminster Confession treats this issue:


Specifically in relation to evil, God does not work fresh evil in the hearts of men. When God hardened Pharaoh's heart, he removed His restraining grace from him, allowing the evil in Pharaoh's heart to bear its full fruit. God does not inspire evil afresh in the hearts of men. Nevertheless He is sovereign over it.

3. The Bible says in 1 Timothy 2:4, "God our Savior wants all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth."

It also states that God wants all men to be saved in 2 Peter 3:9, Matthew 23:37 and in Ezekiel 33:11 and 18:30. Obviously not all men are saved.

How does Calvinism explain this? Does the God of Calvinism have two wills that are in direct contradiction and hence have a multiple personality disorder? No offense, but this is what it seems...

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Those verses do not all say the same thing. Second Peter 3:9 for instance says that He is "not willing than any should perish but that all should come to repentance." While it would be easy enough to point to such verses as 2 Tim 2:25 which states that repentance is granted by God, a simply grammatical and contextual look at 2 Peter 3:9 shows its clear meaning. Peter speaks of scoffers who ask why the Lord has not come in judgement as He promised. The answer is that He is longsuffereing towards us, not willing that any of us should perish. IOW, He has not come because the full number of the Gentiles has not come in (Rom 11:25).

I will say that God does in a manner reveal two wills in Scripture. For instance, He commands "thou shalt not kill (murder)" yet He also orders the Israelites to "utterly destroy" the men, women and children of nations.

John Piper as an excellent article speaking directly to the issues you bring up.

4. Calvinism excludes individual faith from the salvation process, classifying such faith as a work.

How can Calvinists classify faith as a work when Paul specifically excludes faith from works in Romans 3:27-28 and 4:5?

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Whoa there. Calvinism does not exclude individual faith from the salvation process. Faith is the instrumental cause of our justification...the means through which our sins are imputed to Christ and His righteousness is imputed to us. Faith is absolutely essential to salvation.

What you will often find is Calvinists referring to faith in the manner some non-Calvinists present it as being a work.

5. Jonah 2:8 says that "those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs."

If, as Calvinism teaches, God determined before time began who would be reprobates, and therefore does not extend the grace to them by which they could be saved, how logically can we understand this verse's statement that these reprobates, "forfeited the grace that could be theirs.?"

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Salvific, regenerative grace is not the only grace spoken of in the Scriptures or given to men by God. The very fact that the reprobate live and breath moment to moment is nothing short of grace. God's forebearance in the face of repentance...even the superficial repentance of attrition which the reprobate produce...is an expression of God's grace.

Keep in mind also that God's Word is the means by which He accomplishes His will.

6. The Bible says in John 6:44, "no one can come to me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." The same word "draw" is used in John 12:32 which says, "But I, when I am lifted up from the earth will draw all men unto myself." Matthew 23:37 says that men can resist God's will. How do you answer this problem in Calvinism?

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In John 6, the agent doing the drawing is God the Father and the context is that of salvation/conversion. In John 12, the agent doing the drawing is God the Son and the context is redemption/judgement. While the word "draw" is the same in both, it should be noted also that pas anthropos in 12:32 is often rendered "all peoples," which in this case would relay the revealed mystery of Christ's extension of the covenant people of God to the Gentiles, a common theme throughout the New Testament. Also, think back to Numbers 21:4-9 and Moses placing the pole with the promise that all who looked to it would be saved.

7. You say that even the "good" acts of sinners are "bad" because they come from a completely depraved nature. Is it a "bad" act to rationally apprehend the truthfulness of apologetics? If so, why has God commanded us to practice apologetics to sinners, which causes them to do a bad act? Doesn't that mean that God causes sinners' bad acts? If you say "yes," doesn't that make God a bad guy?

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See your answer to #1. God does not work fresh evil in the hearts of men, so He does not bear the moral responsibility of their sin. The preaching of the Gospel is the ordained means by which God brings men to faith. The offer is valid for all men, but only the elect will respond in faith as the result of the regeneration of the Holy Spirit. God gives the command and then graciously grants the ability/willingness to obey the command to whom He chooses. He is not obligated to give it to anyone, let alone everyone, or it would not be grace but justice. We are to preach the Gospel to all men because we do not know who the elect are and we are commanded to do so. It is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to those who are being saved it is the power of God unto salvation.

8. When Calvinism is shown to have logical contradictions, Calvinists usually reply that God's thoughts are unsearchable, and therefore the logical problems that Calvinism has, for example divine election and human responsibility, exhaustive sovereignty and human free will, and God's having two contradictory wills, are solved by invoking the phrase, "well that's a mystery." If you can solve your logic problems by copping out with the term mystery, why can't the Arminian types, atheists and others pull the same move?

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I have yet to see Calvinism be shown to have logical contradictions. That's not to say there are not paradoxes that must be grappled with. Christianity in general wrestles with paradoxes such as the Trinity and the Incarnation. I try never to cop out with the term "mystery" (especially because in the Biblical sense, mysteries are hidden truths that are revealed, not kept hidden)

9. The Bible says in 2 Thessalonians 2:10 that reprobates "perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved." From your Calvinistic worldview, how can it logically be said that a reprobate refuses to love the truth and so be saved, when your God determines that the reprobate can't love the truth, can't be saved, and therefore doesn't refuse God at all?

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God does not inspire them to reject Him or work fresh evil in their hearts to refuse Him. They are born in a state of rebellion and rejection, as all men are by nature children of wrath. It is not as though God looked at men as individuals being in a state of neutrality and said, "these I will cause to love me and these I will cause to be condemned." He looked upon men as already in a state of condemnation through Adam and chose from among them a number to be recipients of His divine mercy and grace. "The rest of mankind, God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy as he pleaseth, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice." (WCF, III, vii)

10. You have said that nothing thwarts the will of God, and you also have said that a man's will cannot be free or else God would not be absolutely sovereign. Doesn't this mean that God determines (or is the cause of) evil and the evil acts of men for his sovereign pleasure?

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To the first statement, I shudder to think any God-fearing Christian would think otherwise. To the second, the only time I ever say such a thing is in response to a particularly libertine view of human free will whereby man exercises some manner of self-determinative choice which either violates his own nature or contradicts God's will to the extent God cannot triumph. Man has a free will in some senses, but not in others.

11. We read in Mark 4:11,12 that he spoke in parables as a judgment against the obstinate Jews. The purpose of parables was to keep his message from entering their ears, "otherwise they might turn and be forgiven" (v.12). Had those stiff-necked people been allowed to hear the truth straight out, they might have turned to receive it. But how? Calvinism tells us that no one can turn and receive the forgiveness of sins because of Total Inability passed from Adam.There must first be an inward miracle of the heart, an "effectual call." That is according to Calvinism. How do you explain this?

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The Word of God is able to give men knowledge which leads to repentance. That does not mean that men can come to repentance apart from it being granted by the Father and wrought by the Holy Spirit. I spoke earlier of the repentance of attrition (as opposed to contrition). Such repentance may "save" them from certain judgements even if it does not lead to the saving of their souls.

12. In Romans 9 where God says, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy" why do you automatically assume that God does not want to have mercy on all but only have mercy on the select few when God clearly tells us in Romans 11:32 that, "God has bound all men over to disobedience so that He may have mercy on them all?" If you say that all means all classes of men, but not all men in every class, then why does it not mean all classes of men but not all men in every class in Romans 3:23 where it says, "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God?" Does this mean some have not sinned? Perhaps, for instance, the Virgin Mary?

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Context, context, context. The early chapters of Romans labor the point that all men without exception are in need of the Gospel. The later chapters of Romans (9-11) drive home the revelation of the mystery that salvation has come to the Gentiles through the disobedience of the Jews, so that God's covenant of redemption sees its fulfillment expanded to all tribes, tongues and nations.


Each of these questions could be (and has been) a separate thread with extensive discussion. Hopefully I've given you at least an adequate answer to show that we do indeed have responses to such questions

frumanchu,

So you don't believe faith is a work? Faith is a Synonym word that can be understood as belief, trust, etc.

Look in Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Every believer in the past that has been saved and the believers in the future who will be saved, are justified by Christ' Faith, obedience to the law of God as well paying for our sins and to say our faith that God uses to justify us is called a grace plus works gospel and is really sad. It shows that we want to take some credit to our salvation be saved on our terms rather than God's terms.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

At the moment the believer is regenerated by the Holy Spirit, God himself, we have now received all the spiritual gifts from God such as faith, repentance, keeping his commandments, etc. In no way our gift of faith received from God justify us, that would mean that Christ obedience and being our sacrfice, was not enough to justify us until we use our gift of faith from God would complete our justification in the holy eyes of God.

Actually that is not what we are saying. Trust is not the same thing in this context. You may trust a tightrope walker to push a man in a wheelbarrow across a deep chasm, but are you willing to get into the wheelbarrow? If not, do you truly trust? Look at Hebrews 11. All over the place, people are performing actions by faith. To use my word picture, they all got into the wheelbarrow, knowing that God would see them to the other side.

Belief and trust are not only emotions in a Biblical sense. Hearing is not just a matter of having a physical capacity to detect an audible noise. It is how you respond or do not respond to such things that matters. Those God has decreed will respond favorably to Him within their lifetime. Those He has not written in the book will continue to reject His word.

He who has ears, let him hear.

James1979 said:

frumanchu,

So you don't believe faith is a work? Faith is a Synonym word that can be understood as belief, trust, etc.

Look in Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Every believer in the past that has been saved and the believers in the future who will be saved, are justified by Christ' Faith, obedience to the law of God as well paying for our sins and to say our faith that God uses to justify us is called a grace plus works gospel and is really sad. It shows that we want to take some credit to our salvation be saved on our terms rather than God's terms.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

At the moment the believer is regenerated by the Holy Spirit, God himself, we have now received all the spiritual gifts from God such as faith, repentance, keeping his commandments, etc. In no way our gift of faith received from God justify us, that would mean that Christ obedience and being our sacrfice, was not enough to justify us until we use our gift of faith from God would complete our justification in the holy eyes of God.

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I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here, James.

Faith is the instrumental cause of our justification. The faith is genuinely ours, yet such faith is wrought in us by God through the regeneration and call of the Holy Spirit in synergy with the Word of God. Our faith is nothing we can take credit for, but that doesn't mean it is not genuinely ours. The material cause of our justification is Christ's active and passive obedience...His righteousness. We do not contribute one tiny ounce of righteousness to our justification. It is wholly Christ's righteousness imputed to us. Not infused. Not imparted. Imputed.

I'm still sticking with God's word. What I'm saying is that we ourselves can't do anything to get one step closer to salvation. God does not use faith as an instrumental to justify us, God himself justify us in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. There is no requirement on our part to become saved, even though God commands us to believe, to repent, etc. God knows fully well that he has to intervne for us to believe, to repent and to do many other commands from his law. God is not waiting upon dead spiritually people to respond, if he were waiting we would all go straight to hell(lake of fire). God's method to save any dirty rotten sinner is to put that indiviual in the environment of his word(gospel) and God will either bless his word in that person's heart or God will not which will continue to put that person in greater condemnation.

James1979 said:

I'm still sticking with God's word. What I'm saying is that we ourselves can't do anything to get one step closer to salvation. God does not use faith as an instrumental to justify us, God himself justify us in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ.

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I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. God does indeed use faith as an instrument to justify us. It is through faith that our sins are imputed to Christ and Christ's righteousness is imputed to us. That doesn't mean that this faith is self-generated without prior initiative from God. That faith through which our salvation is accomplished is itself the gift of God, brought about efficaciously by the response of the regenerated heart to the call of the Gospel. Our faith is not instilled, it is infallibily inspired.

There is no requirement on our part to become saved, even though God commands us to believe, to repent, etc. God knows fully well that he has to intervne for us to believe, to repent and to do many other commands from his law. God is not waiting upon dead spiritually people to respond, if he were waiting we would all go straight to hell(lake of fire).

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I agree that the unregenerate will not respond in faith to the Gospel. The requirement from us for salvation is faith, yet Scripture is clear that such faith will not and cannot come about apart from the prior work of the Holy Spirit, and that that prior work of the Spirit is 100% efficacious in bringing the elect to faith in Christ.

God's method to save any dirty rotten sinner is to put that indiviual in the environment of his word(gospel) and God will either bless his word in that person's heart or God will not which will continue to put that person in greater condemnation.

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I think we're both pretty much in agreement here. I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying when I speak of instrumental and material means. What can I do to clarify this for you?

Not to be rude but you don't have to clarify anything...I was raised all of my life believing that I need faith to be justified by God but that fact is there is asbolutely no requirement on our part, nothing, nada, zipo..It's hard to believe this but you have to really digest and slowly read the scripture..it took me quite a while to see the truth as God opened my eyes to this. Because what you believe, is considered works..faith is not an instrumental or any other name for it..its belief, depence. Basically all congregation teach this and they're all in error. When God is about to save someone...he sees no belief or repentance in the sinner to will to do this. So where is the faith that God is going to use to justify that indiviual...it can't be the spiritual gifts that God will give to that person..those gifts are simply the good works that the indiviual was ordain to walk in ..so the other faith that God has to justify that indiviual has to be Christ' faith.