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John16:2 said:I wasn't quoting from the chief's "list", but the elaboration for #1 on the list, as I recall, though I haven't even bothered to doublecheck if I misread it.
John16:2 said:Seeing is believing, but Hubble is being shut down before the answer is clear.
You did. And while it's to your credit that you admit this, it is to your considerable discredit that you launch into attacks without bothering to check your sources.John16:2 said:I wasn't quoting from the chief's "list", but the elaboration for #1 on the list, as I recall, though I haven't even bothered to doublecheck if I misread it.
One thing at a time.jmccanneyscience.com is where I actually learned of the discovery of a static electrical field to the universe incorporating and assisting stars in their process.
Let me know if I get anything wrong in your fairytale version of creation. Once upon a lack of time/space/matter there was a big bang that uniformly spewed galaxies across infinity from a single point without a center, from nothing (why?), and when did this happen again? Will it end? I need to know the mainstream "party line" so I don't sound crazy as the big bang hypothesis to the "wise ones" anymore. Ha! Back to believing fairytales only to get along maybe! What if another big bang happens now? Or is that against your rules somehow?michabo said:You did. And while it's to your credit that you admit this, it is to your considerable discredit that you launch into attacks without bothering to check your sources.
One thing at a time.
Judging by how quickly you run from defending your ex-chief, does this mean that you don't agree with his points after all?
This all leads me to a basic question; How did all that matter come from nothing into nothing and become something? WHY? What happened before the bang in nothingness?Deamiter said:Hmm... The 'big bang' WAS indeed an "explosion" without a centre. Unlike a conventional explosion (which is only related as an illustration that lay-people can easily understand) it wasn't actually an explosion in the usual sense of the word. It was a sudden expansion of all of space.
Try to look at it with an open mind for a second. I'm not entirely sure I'm that great at explaining this sort of thing. Try thinking about it with an open mind and try to envision what it WOULD look like to have an infinite space suddenly expand from a point to the early universe.
Scientists weren't in agreement on whether the universe is infinite or not last time I checked (I'm specializing in lasers and acoustics and astronomy is only a hobby, not something I read all the journals on) but the big bang theory is consistant with both. If the universe were infinite, imagine all that infinite area compressed into a point, and then 'allowed' to expand suddenly. There is no centre as nothing exploded within the universe (even a finite universe would have no observable centre created by the event). I just find it easier to comprehend when I assume an infinite universe as such a space, by definition, can have no centre, and yet an infinite universe has ALWAYS been consistent with the big bang theory.
Of course, nobody knows what caused the big bang, but as the universe is still expanding (and, as this last year has shown, it's actually accelerating) it's difficult to claim that this big bang model has no merit.
Note: this has never claimed to have anything to do with what caused the big bang. Science deals with observations and predictions. When variations in the cosmic background radiation were predicted (according to the big bang theory) many scientists thought it would be the end of the big bang ideas as they hadn't yet found variations. A few years later, they sent a telescope into space sensitive enought to see the variations and it's since been confirmed many times over. Many people (generally Christians) here think God did it, others (*cough* atheists *cough*) don't have a problem with the idea that it happened spontaniously. Neither invalidates the big bang theory which models our universe's timeline, not the creation of our universe.
John16:2 said:Let me know if I get anything wrong in your fairytale version of creation. Once upon a lack of time/space/matter there was a big bang that uniformly spewed galaxies across infinity from a single point without a center, from nothing (why?), and when did this happen again? Will it end? I need to know the mainstream "party line" so I don't sound crazy as the big bang hypothesis to the "wise ones" anymore. Ha! Back to believing fairytales only to get along maybe! What if another big bang happens now? Or is that against your rules somehow?
I need to know the mainstream "party line" so I don't sound crazy as the big bang hypothesis to the "wise ones" anymore.
In order for all the matter to blow out across infinity, there had to already be matter, in which case the big bang was not the beginning of matter, but the next step of matter. Science expects us to believe in miracles also. it seems.michabo said:Once upon a lack of time/space/matter
We have no knowledge about what might have existed before the big bang, so we would be foolish to make any statements about this, one way or the other.
there was a big bang that uniformly
The BB wasn't wholy uniform. There were small-scale differences which were magnified during the early inflationary phase.
spewed galaxies
Galaxies happened much, much latter. The BB resulted in many particle-antiparticle pairs which annihilated in a bath of radiation. In some cases, only a particle was formed, balanced out by negative energy in the expanding universe's gravitational field (see CPT Symmetry).
across infinity
What is infinity in the context where the universe is expanding? We may travel without reaching an end, but the universe itself has a finite (if large and expanding) volume.
from a single point
No single point.
without a center
Does the surface of a balloon have a centre? No. Why should the universe?
from nothing (why?)
We don't know what it came from, so don't know if it was nothing or not. As for "why", possibly for the same reason VPs appear out of "nothing".
and when did this happen again?
Last time I checked, about 14 billion years ago. There are some error bars around any figure, but these are shrinking.
Will it end?
Too early to say.
I need to know the mainstream "party line" so I don't sound crazy as the big bang hypothesis to the "wise ones" anymore.
Many people have posted excellent reasons to think the BB exists. Another big one is the simple observation that, if everything is moving apart from each other, then at one point they must have been much closer. When we turn the clock backwards, it turns out it is impossible to avoid a BB. There is no description of the universe which is consistent with GR which does not start with a BB.
What if another big bang happens now? Or is that against your rules somehow?
What do you mean by "now"? Time is based on our own universe.
How would we know if another BB has happened or not?
No, you just don't understand the BB. Maybe you should learn before talking about what it 'expects'.John16:2 said:In order for all the matter to blow out across infinity, there had to already be matter, in which case the big bang was not the beginning of matter, but the next step of matter. Science expects us to believe in miracles also. it seems.
John16:2 said:In order for all the matter to blow out across infinity, there had to already be matter.
Despite the widespread acceptance of the big bang theory as a working model for interpreting new findings, not a single important prediction of the theory has yet been confirmed
About the "14 billion years age,(give or take)", Expansion of the universe, based on old red shift interpretations, supposedly negates the extra billion years Hubble is now seeing, but how much farther is it possible for Hubble to see into the past without finding your Bang? The math adds up less and less with every billion years into the past Hubble can view without finding the Bang. The Bang is near to being a bust now, if not already. But we can just say it's a math error in your perfect explanation as to how everything came from nothing.michabo said:Once upon a lack of time/space/matter
We have no knowledge about what might have existed before the big bang, so we would be foolish to make any statements about this, one way or the other.
there was a big bang that uniformly
The BB wasn't wholy uniform. There were small-scale differences which were magnified during the early inflationary phase.
spewed galaxies
Galaxies happened much, much latter. The BB resulted in many particle-antiparticle pairs which annihilated in a bath of radiation. In some cases, only a particle was formed, balanced out by negative energy in the expanding universe's gravitational field (see CPT Symmetry).
across infinity
What is infinity in the context where the universe is expanding? We may travel without reaching an end, but the universe itself has a finite (if large and expanding) volume.
from a single point
No single point.
without a center
Does the surface of a balloon have a centre? No. Why should the universe?
from nothing (why?)
We don't know what it came from, so don't know if it was nothing or not. As for "why", possibly for the same reason VPs appear out of "nothing".
and when did this happen again?
Last time I checked, about 14 billion years ago. There are some error bars around any figure, but these are shrinking.
Will it end?
Too early to say.
I need to know the mainstream "party line" so I don't sound crazy as the big bang hypothesis to the "wise ones" anymore.
Many people have posted excellent reasons to think the BB exists. Another big one is the simple observation that, if everything is moving apart from each other, then at one point they must have been much closer. When we turn the clock backwards, it turns out it is impossible to avoid a BB. There is no description of the universe which is consistent with GR which does not start with a BB.
What if another big bang happens now? Or is that against your rules somehow?
What do you mean by "now"? Time is based on our own universe.
How would we know if another BB has happened or not?
Astronomers say they've peered deeper into the cosmos than ever before, recording light that left a galaxy when the universe was just 3 percent its current age.
The discovery represents an important and challenging leap in time and space beyond the previous record holder and points to more record-setters to come. The galaxy is 13.23 billion light-years away, seen when the universe was 470 million years old.
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