• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

‘Go to Berkeley’: Ron DeSantis said students seeking ‘woke’ classes should study elsewhere

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
29,241
17,548
Here
✟1,545,740.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
That is absolutely outstanding. No wonder the Right is afraid of Unversities.
I don't know if "afraid" is the right word.

But if a particular institution was all but captured by the opposing political team, would you be itching to drop thousands of dollars to send your kid there so that they could be in that bubble and come back in 4 years hating all of your values?

I don't think any parent would be too keen on that idea regardless of their political stripe.
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

I march with Sherman
Mar 11, 2017
23,339
17,320
55
USA
✟439,151.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Or they're only being given one viewpoint.

If it was purely case where something about conservatism was turning moderates off, then the pattern wouldn't be more pronounced the longer they stay in college, correct?
The chart you posted is a bit messy. The middle decade seems to be largely different than either earlier or later. I wonder if the methodology changed. But, if you want to speculate, then I would speculate agreement with your speculation. The question is *what* puts off the moderates. (Perhaps I can be a case study as I was definitely a "moderate" when I finished BS, and was still calling myself a "moderate" when I finished grad school.)
I don't think we discussed politics much at all in our grad student offices, mostly football, other sports, silly things like creationism and other pseudosciences. As for in the classroom, there was exactly *ZERO* discussion of politics in my graduate work at a public university not from the professors, nor from the TA (me). I did go from a satisfied member of the Church to one who was so dissatisfied I would leave after a few more months. IIRC PhD holders are significantly less religious. I suspect that phenomenon is related.

Here are things I have noticed that might be relevant:

1. Unlike BS/BA programs where most attend in their home state (as you and I did), most graduate students travel out of state for their degrees (as I did). That exposes you to other cultures (like evangelicalism in my case) and at the same time keeps you from tight maintenance of tight reinforcement of your home culture. (I went home once a month in undergrad and worked in my hometown in the summer. In gradschool I mostly went home at the end of each semester for a week or two and stayed on campus in the summer.)

2. It is a lot easier to complete a BS/BA with out acquiring reasoning skills than a masters degree and almost impossible in a PhD program.

3. Both religious positions and conservative ones tend to thrive in the "not questioning" anything mode of thinking. Being well traveled, living away from your home/culture, and developing strong reasoning skills are corrosive to maintenance of religious and conservative positions.
 
Reactions: iluvatar5150
Upvote 0

iluvatar5150

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2012
30,403
30,206
Baltimore
✟840,810.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat

You're conflating a bunch of different things. Do some people exhibit the sort of fandom you describe? Yes. Is it commonplace on university campuses? Not at all in my experience.

Again, I've seen it much more often with media personalities who have a clear financial incentive to cultivate this sort of personality cult. Trump is easily the most prominent example of this at the moment.


You're putting words in our mouths.

In the 15 years since the ACA passed, Republicans haven't developed a health care plan of any sort. We're not even at the point of evaluating a plan to see if it's serious or not.
 
Upvote 0

BCP1928

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2024
9,781
4,957
83
Goldsboro NC
✟287,021.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
A kid who is that impressionable shouldn't be allowed in college, especially if his parents have filled him with crap about "opposite political teams."
 
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
29,241
17,548
Here
✟1,545,740.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others

You're point on number 1 is interesting, and admittedly I hadn't initially considered that.

However, when you mention that there wasn't much political talk when you were in college, that was was my experience as well, but the polling I linked would indicate that the environment may have changed a bit.


Results like this:
When asked if they have professors who talk politics during class, 32% of respondents said that they have a few professors who do, 41% say they have some professors who do, and 13% say they have many professors who express their political opinions in class. Of these 85%, two-thirds say their professors occasionally (52%) or frequently (15%) express these ideas.

I don't know that I could tell you any of the professors' politics from when I was in college (I mean, you can make guesses, but they never went out of their way to discuss it). Even in a Poli-Sci elective class, the instructor in that course obviously talked politics in a general educational sense, but I don't know that they ever overtly made clear which "side" they were on, on the various issues.

The fact 85% of students are reporting that their professors are "getting political" marks a shift away from the college environment you or I were in. (assuming that we were in college around the same time)



I would've been in that circled demographic, during the time where the biggest share of the pie was still the "mixed" category. (even among the post grads in 2004, the "mixed" group is still the biggest.

The only social catalyst I can think of during that time period would've perhaps been that Bush 2 was a bit of tumultuous presidency (although, people seem to see him as "one of the good ones" in retrospect), and I do recall in the mid-2000's, there was a certain "coolness" associated with being Anti-Bush among some of the younger crowd.

For those who remember these that came out in late-2004:

(and it was actually a pretty star-studded line-up on that)

But my time in college was drawing to a close for that period...so who knows, maybe 2006 would've been a very different environment on campus.
 
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
29,241
17,548
Here
✟1,545,740.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
A kid who is that impressionable shouldn't be allowed in college, especially if his parents have filled him with crap about "opposite political teams."
Well... that would rule out most teenagers then lol.

Most people are a lot more impressionable from 17-21 than they are from 27-31.

Finding people in that age demo who both
A) not impressionable, and
B) didn't have parents with a vocal political preference at home

...is going to be a rarity.
 
Reactions: durangodawood
Upvote 0

durangodawood

re Member
Aug 28, 2007
28,317
19,938
Colorado
✟557,135.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
......2. It is a lot easier to complete a BS/BA with out acquiring reasoning skills than a masters degree and almost impossible in a PhD program.
As a proud member of the BA degree set, I feel a need to speak up in defense of our thinking. We can do it! Some of us at least.
 
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
29,241
17,548
Here
✟1,545,740.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
As a proud member of the BA degree set, I feel I need to speak up in defense of our thinking. We can do it! Some of us at least.
It could depend on the field of study... I could see where some would lean on it more, where others may perhaps more on just memorization.

But for what it's worth, per this OECD 2020 report, it's something of a recently growing problem that doesn't seem to be isolated by country, or level of degree attainment

There is a discernible and growing gap between the qualifications that a university degree certifies and the actual generic, 21st-century skills with which students graduate from higher education. By generic skills, it is meant literacy and critical thinking skills encompassing problem solving, analytic reasoning and communications competency.
 
Upvote 0

durangodawood

re Member
Aug 28, 2007
28,317
19,938
Colorado
✟557,135.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
For sure! ACA was exactly that. It was not single payer, and it explicitly accounted for:
-pre existing conditions
-preventative medicine
-many pharmaceutical payment issues
-lifetime maximums
-etc etc

It was very comprehensive. The people who devised it took the matter extremely seriously. By contrast the Rs have given us nothing more than "concepts of a plan" - which is being generous.

This is not to say ACA is working well long term. Medical inflation is obviously blowing it up. My point is just that its authors put in the work to devise a scheme that was fleshed out enough for the rest of us to properly analyze. They took the issue seriously.
 
Reactions: iluvatar5150
Upvote 0