Would you support this 10-plank party platform?

[Tpolg]

1, 2, 4, 7, 8, 9, and 10 are in keeping with libertarian theory; the others are not particularly and could even be in conflict with it.

 

[Charlie V]

No to 1 as it is the easiest (cheapest) way to have peace in the world and avoid war/interventionism (very costly) later.

Scaling back humanitarian aid was part of #1.

How does, not helping Africa with its Aids crisis or its poverty, help encourage peace and avoid war.

Charlie

 

[Charlie V]

Thanks for commenting.

What's wrong with these two, for example:

8. Repeal any and all obscenity/indecency laws.

9. Repeal any and all laws regulating private, consensual, adult sexual activity.

Do you really think the government has any business deciding what's "indecent" or "obscene" for YOU to watch?

Do you really think the government has any business deciding what's "acceptable" or "unacceptable" for an adult to do in bed consensually with another adult?

Libertarians, such as myself, value one thing above all else: liberty.

I agree with #9 and disagree with #8.

#8 didn't say anything about what you watch -- it said ALL obsenity laws, which would make legal for exibitionists to expose themselves in front of a kindergarten class.

Charlie

 

[Charlie V]

6. End all forms of torture and end all forms of the death penalty.

Some of the list are horrible, some I agree with, but this one is my ultimate favorite, which I agree with without the least amount of reservation. If I had magical powers to compel legislators to enact only one law, this one is most likely the one I'd pick.

Charlie

 

[ACougar]

1. Immediately end all political foreign aid. Immediately scale back humanitarian foreign aid.

Aid is one of our most effective tools. We'll give you 300 million in aid if you stop slaughtering Indians in the Jungle. We currrently use aid to modify the behavior of those who want that aid, it's an effective tool with even more potential.

2. Adopt a strict policy of non-intervention with respect to foreign conflicts. The US will only get involved in military conflicts if said conflicts demonstrably and substantially affect us.

We live in a complex and interconnected world, each and every conflict affects us, if an opportunity presents itself for the United States to do good, then it should. However we must first insure that we have a clear understanding of the entire situation and a workable plan with a high probablity of success before we commit troops. We are the most powerful nation on the planet, the worlds only superpower. We have a responsibility to be a force for good.

3. Recognize an absolute, unrestricted right to abortion, as well as a personal right to die.

Abortion is a horrible thing, while I oppose restricting abortion in the early stages of pregnancy I do beleive that we should be struggling to educate and provide support for mothers in a fashin that dramaticly reduces abortion in this country.

4. Repeal any and all laws banning private, adult drug use.

I really don't care if someone wants to smoke a little weed now and then instead of having a few beers. MJ should be legallized, at the same time there are other drugs out there which are simply too deadly and cripling to ever legalize. Meth is the perfect example. Manufacturing or Selling Meth should be penalized as hard as any Murder, anyone caught using it should be forced to kick the habbit in prison.

5. Promote global free trade (including with countries that have poor human rights records) and eliminate as many tariffs as feasible.

Tarifs should be used as a tool. Countries with good human rights records should receive favorable status, while countries that exploit workers should be heavily tarrifed.

6. End all forms of torture and end all forms of the death penalty.

I agree with this.

7. Expand domestic oil drilling (especially ANWR), raise fuel efficiency standards and explore non-Middle Eastern foreign oil sources.

The focus has got to be on developing alternatives to fossil fuels, not destroying our environment to sustain our bad habbit a few years longer.

8. Repeal any and all obscenity/indecency laws.

Umm, no. There are some bad laws and some good ones.

9. Repeal any and all laws regulating private, consensual, adult sexual activity.

I agree, why regulate what we can't and shouldn't control?

10. Transform healthcare from a public obligation to a private responsibility.

Health care needs serious reform and it's not going to reform itself. We need to figure out why most Western nations can provide thier citizens with equivalent health care at a fraction of what we spend and incorperate the best aspects of thier systems with the best aspects of our own.

2 out of 10... doesn't look like this party is for me.

 

[Charlie V]

3. Recognize an absolute, unrestricted right to abortion, as well as a personal right to die.

That "personal right to die" part, is that also absolute and unrestricted?

What if a teenager's girlfriend breaks up with him, so he's really sad, so he takes $100 to Dr. Kevorkian and says, "Please off me."

That's perfectly fine?

Charlie

 

[HouseApe]

1. Immediately end all political foreign aid. Immediately scale back humanitarian foreign aid.

Why? Political foreign aid can increase business opportunities. Humanitarian aid is necessary because sometimes bad things happen to good people. Both should be minimized, but not ended.

2. Adopt a strict policy of non-intervention with respect to foreign conflicts. The US will only get involved in military conflicts if said conflicts demonstrably and substantially affect us.

In general I agree. But this is a little overboard. Sometimes it makes sense to nip a small problem in the bud before it becomes a big problem.

3. Recognize an absolute, unrestricted right to abortion, as well as a personal right to die.

No. Once a fetus has developed all of the structures of a human baby, it is functionally a human baby, and should not be killed unless it is a direct threat to the long term physical health of the mother.

4. Repeal any and all laws banning private, adult drug use.

I would support this if the government would help provide what is needed to help the drug user break his/her addiction.

5. Promote global free trade (including with countries that have poor human rights records) and eliminate as many tariffs as feasible.

Heck no. I cannot compete with a Chinese guy making 50 cents a day. I'm not that good. No one is.

6. End all forms of torture and end all forms of the death penalty.

I'm okay with this.

7. Expand domestic oil drilling (especially ANWR), raise fuel efficiency standards and explore non-Middle Eastern foreign oil sources.

I'm okay with this.

8. Repeal any and all obscenity/indecency laws.

Nope. I have children. I don't want them exposed to the fruitcakes out there.

9. Repeal any and all laws regulating private, consensual, adult sexual activity.

I'm okay with this.

10. Transform healthcare from a public obligation to a private responsibility.

Nope. I'm against sickness.

This platform only got a confident 3 out 10 for me. So I'm against.

 

[Cerberus~]

2. The only real "sane" party of small government is actually the Constitution Party.

They just nutty in a different way.

 

[Cerberus~]

1. Immediately end all political foreign aid. Immediately scale back humanitarian foreign aid.

Bad idea. The unintended consequences will be disaterous when we stop supporting all the government we support. Though we should be much more careful when choosing our allies.

2. Adopt a strict policy of non-intervention with respect to foreign conflicts. The US will only get involved in military conflicts if said conflicts demonstrably and substantially affect us.

I think when people are commiting genocide on eachother with machettes, we have not only the right, but the duty as a superpower to step in and stop the bloodshed.

3. Recognize an absolute, unrestricted right to abortion, as well as a personal right to die.

I'm not so absolute. I'm pro-choice, but third trimester abortions should be reserved to only those who really and truely need them.

4. Repeal any and all laws banning private, adult drug use.

No drug is the same, and you can't round them all up in one group.

Though I believe no one should ever be put in prison for nothing other than consuming drugs, no matter the drug.

5. Promote global free trade (including with countries that have poor human rights records) and eliminate as many tariffs as feasible.

It bad enough when our economy depends on us for it's health.

It's worse when countries who we're posed to go to war with eventually, can collapse our economy with a policy change.

6. End all forms of torture and end all forms of the death penalty.

No to the death penalty. I would say no to torture, but sinc there are so many who use the term so liberally, I would only say no to certain forms of torture.

Though I would say we've lacked a comprehensive list of what torture entails for too long now.

7. Expand domestic oil drilling (especially ANWR), raise fuel efficiency standards and explore non-Middle Eastern foreign oil sources.

One of the few things I agree with completely in this list.

8. Repeal any and all obscenity/indecency laws.

I'm pretty liberal about this, but there are certain things that should be regulated.

9. Repeal any and all laws regulating private, consensual, adult sexual activity.

The other thing I agree completely with.

10. Transform healthcare from a public obligation to a private responsibility.

A mix of both. One or the other is a bad idea.

 

[WWFStern]

That "personal right to die" part, is that also absolute and unrestricted?

What if a teenager's girlfriend breaks up with him, so he's really sad, so he takes $100 to Dr. Kevorkian and says, "Please off me."

That's perfectly fine?

Charlie

Pretty much. Maybe I would put an age restriction, such as 18 and older only. I also would consider a 16 and older age restriction.

The bottom line is this: I own my body and I own my life. As such, I can terminate it whenever I want. The government absolutely should NOT interfere in a suicide attempt. Suicide is a legitimate choice, in my view--not to be undermined.

 

[WWFStern]

They just nutty in a different way.

They also aren't small government. They believe in Christian theocracy to a large extent, with respect to cultural issues.

 

[ElvisFan42]

1. Immediately end all political foreign aid. Immediately scale back humanitarian foreign aid.

Ending all foreign aid would be catastropic.


2. Adopt a strict policy of non-intervention with respect to foreign conflicts. The US will only get involved in military conflicts if said conflicts demonstrably and substantially affect us.

I like this, but like too many things written in English, it's open to interpretation, demonstrably and substantially can be made from many things.

3. Recognize an absolute, unrestricted right to abortion, as well as a personal right to die.

Unrestricted right to abortion? No, right to die, yes.


4. Repeal any and all laws banning private, adult drug use.

Absolutely not.


5. Promote global free trade (including with countries that have poor human rights records) and eliminate as many tariffs as feasible.

No way. It's not an equal playing field out there, tariffs help balance it.


6. End all forms of torture and end all forms of the death penalty.

Nope. Convicted terrorists (I assume that's what you are referring to) may have valueable information and severe interrogation can be very valueable. People eligible for the death penalty put themselves in that position.


7. Expand domestic oil drilling (especially ANWR), raise fuel efficiency standards and explore non-Middle Eastern foreign oil sources.

Fine as long as the environment is protected. At the same time, explore alternative fuels.


8. Repeal any and all obscenity/indecency laws.

Any and all? No.


9. Repeal any and all laws regulating private, consensual, adult sexual activity.

This one is good.


10. Transform healthcare from a public obligation to a private responsibility.

Nope, can't go with this one.

 

[tollytee]

1. Immediately end all political foreign aid. Immediately scale back humanitarian foreign aid.

2. Adopt a strict policy of non-intervention with respect to foreign conflicts. The US will only get involved in military conflicts if said conflicts demonstrably and substantially affect us.

3. Recognize an absolute, unrestricted right to abortion, as well as a personal right to die.

4. Repeal any and all laws banning private, adult drug use.

5. Promote global free trade (including with countries that have poor human rights records) and eliminate as many tariffs as feasible.

6. End all forms of torture and end all forms of the death penalty.

7. Expand domestic oil drilling (especially ANWR), raise fuel efficiency standards and explore non-Middle Eastern foreign oil sources.

8. Repeal any and all obscenity/indecency laws.

9. Repeal any and all laws regulating private, consensual, adult sexual activity.

10. Transform healthcare from a public obligation to a private responsibility.

What a bunk poll. You mislead the issues because you entertain the ideas that politics and the mental condition of reasoned people are pigeoned-holed and untractable. To state that any person is either 'for or against' a particular politcal plank is ignorant on its face.
Of course no person would advocate the elimination of all obscenity laws, and you are fully aware of that.

Please bring some intelligence to the table when you care to sit.

Respectfully,

Tolly

 

[WWFStern]

I advocate the elimination of all obscenity laws.

 

[HouseApe]

I advocate the elimination of all obscenity laws.

I prefer to not be subjected to public sexual displays by homely people.

 

[xMinionX]

1. Immediately end all political foreign aid. Immediately scale back humanitarian foreign aid.

2. Adopt a strict policy of non-intervention with respect to foreign conflicts. The US will only get involved in military conflicts if said conflicts demonstrably and substantially affect us.

3. Recognize an absolute, unrestricted right to abortion, as well as a personal right to die.

4. Repeal any and all laws banning private, adult drug use.

5. Promote global free trade (including with countries that have poor human rights records) and eliminate as many tariffs as feasible.

6. End all forms of torture and end all forms of the death penalty.

7. Expand domestic oil drilling (especially ANWR), raise fuel efficiency standards and explore non-Middle Eastern foreign oil sources.

8. Repeal any and all obscenity/indecency laws.

9. Repeal any and all laws regulating private, consensual, adult sexual activity.

10. Transform healthcare from a public obligation to a private responsibility.

Yes to 2-9. No to the others.

 

[Charlie V]

Convicted terrorists (I assume that's what you are referring to) may have valueable information and severe interrogation can be very valueable.

Torture is proven to be ineffective in gleaning any valuable information. The person being tortured will say anything that he thinks you want him to say that will stop his torture. He will make up facts if he doesn't know them, he will rat out innocent people, he will even claim guilt of things he himself is innocent if he thinks it will be seen as cooperation and will stop the torture. Information gotten by means of torture is useless, tainted information.

Further, torture endangers the torturing country by enraging others and encouraging retaliation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2302-2005Jan11.html

Charlie

 

[ElvisFan42]

Torture is proven to be ineffective in gleaning any valuable information. The person being tortured will say anything that he thinks you want him to say that will stop his torture. He will make up facts if he doesn't know them, he will rat out innocent people, he will even claim guilt of things he himself is innocent if he thinks it will be seen as cooperation and will stop the torture. Information gotten by means of torture is useless, tainted information.

Further, torture endangers the torturing country by enraging others and encouraging retaliation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2302-2005Jan11.html

Charlie

I didn't think the thread had room for a whole discussion about torture, so I didn't get into it much, but there is a fine line between interrogation and abusive torture. What that line is will be debated forever, but I would be against things like dental work, electricution and that, but if sleep deprivation and that type of thing get information, I can't see the harm in applying it to convicted terrorists. There is much evidence that torture does work

http://www.slate.com/id/2057099/

 

[Billnew]

It is plain scarry that its not unanimous.

and 2 people are enthusiastic towards this.

Isolationism, abandons our allies, does not hold any country responsible for thier actions,

Drugs and obscenity laws gone? Indecientcy? So anyone that wanted to could flash people and would be legal? Showing obscenity and people having sex in front of children would be legal? Sex in the streets would be legal.(this time it is true(for those that got upset last time)
the difference between abortion and murder being the first breath of air by the newborn?

7 and 10 are the only ones I might consider.
the rest are outrageous.

 

[platzapS]

Showing obscenity and people having sex in front of children would be legal? Sex in the streets would be legal.(this time it is true(for those that got upset last time)

9. Repeal any and all laws regulating private, consensual, adult sexual activity.

I voted "support, but not enthusiastically".