Word of God

[Llauralin]

When the Bible says "the word of God," with "word" capitalized or not, I cannot for anything firgure out when it means Jesus, and when it means the Bible, and when it means something elso that God has said. Can anyone help me out here? I used to assume that anywhere other than the beginning of John, it meant Scripture, but reading some of these verses in context, I'm getting more and more confused about which meaning is meant in any given verse.

As an example, in Hebrews 4:11-13 it says:

Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

It then goes on to speak of how Jesus is our High Preist.

Now, I have always been tought that that meant the Bible, and perhaps it does, but if so it could not have been done in a more ambigous manner, switching seamlessly between "the word" and "Him." If that "word" means Scripture, perhaps it's less ambigous in other languages?

 

[pilgrimtim]

Jesus is the Word of GOD. God the Father expresses himself through his Word. Sometime what was said was written down but the are only records of the action s of the Word of GOD doing the will of the Father

 

[Knee V]

Keep in mind that there was no "Bible" as we know it today. At that time, they had the Old Testament. When you read "scripture" in the New Testament, it is referring to the OT, with only one exception that I know of, when Paul quoted Luke. But the concept of the "Word of God" is that of Christ. I believe that it is safe to assume that it means Christ in every case, unless you can find a good reason to think otherwise based on the context.

 

[Montalban]

Jesus is the Word of GOD. God the Father expresses himself through his Word. Sometime what was said was written down but the are only records of the action s of the Word of GOD doing the will of the Father

I agree; God the Father 'works' through Jesus the son. In the beginning was the Word

 

[Marjorie]

This is hard to call sometimes... but it always means the revelation of God, the expression of God's own self, which has always to some extent been given to humanity, and then was specifically given to the Jews, though still in a veiled form, and then revealed most perfectly in Christ, as he is the express image of the Father.

When Paul (for instance) says the "word of God," he often means God's general dealings with humanity, God's written revelation to and with the Jewish people, and Jesus Christ... all at once...

In IC XC,
Marjorie

 

[Llauralin]

Ok....so it usually mean Jesus, or could mean Him and His teachings, or possibly Scripture, though rarely....

*Is still kind of confused*

I was just wondering, since that verse in Hebrews is always used when talking about why we should read the Bible, but then suddenly it occoured to me that it might not be, given the context, and that "scripture" is often used if it's specifically the Bible (All Scripture is God-breathed, and useful for teaching, etc.). I've also been reading a lot of stuff lately where they use the Word as one of Jesus' names.

 

[Maximus]

Rev. 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Rev 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;

I think those passages in Hebrews to which you refer are speaking of the Savior as the Word or Logos of God.

If you cross reference them with the description of the Lord Jesus in Revelation, it seems plain that it was not the Scripture that was meant.

 

[Llauralin]

I think those passages in Hebrews to which you refer are speaking of the Savior as the Word or Logos of God.

If you cross reference them with the description of the Lord Jesus in Revelation, it seems plain that it was not the Scripture that was meant.

Oh...I never thought of that before, but it does make sense. Thanks!

 

[MariaRegina]

I think those passages in Hebrews to which you refer are speaking of the Savior as the Word or Logos of God.

If you cross reference them with the description of the Lord Jesus in Revelation, it seems plain that it was not the Scripture that was meant.

Great post, Maximus.

 

[Maximus]

Heb 4:11

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are without sin.

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

I think if you notice the use of the pronoun his in verse 13, you can see that it refers back to the word of God in verse 12.

The succeeding verses continue to speak of the Lord Jesus without missing a beat. Not a reference to the written word of God among them. That passage cannot be referring to the Bible.

The idea that the word of God and the two-edged sword must refer to the Bible is a reading into the Scripture of a Bible-only pov.

It's kind of an anachronism, too, since there was no one-volume Bible when those words were written.

 

[Llauralin]

I think if you notice the use of the pronoun his in verse 13, you can see that it refers back to the word of God in verse 12.

The succeeding verses continue to speak of the Lord Jesus without missing a beat. Not a reference to the written word of God among them. That passage cannot be referring to the Bible.

I did notice the "his," but then in NIV, which I usually read, it switched to "it" for verse 12 only:

12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

The idea that the word of God and the two-edged sword must refer to the Bible is a reading into the Scripture of a Bible-only pov.

Huh? I don't think I quite understand what you're trying to say. Would this explain why NIV translates the "it" into the passage?

 

[Maximus]

I did notice the "his," but then in NIV, which I usually read, it switched to "it" for verse 12 only:

Huh? I don't think I quite understand what you're trying to say. Would this explain why NIV translates the "it" into the passage?

The NIV is notorious for its Evangelical bias, but I cannot say for sure whether or not this is another instance of it.

I don't know enough about NT Greek to say if the use of it in verse 12 is justified. Given the context, I rather doubt it.

Verse 13 says his. Rather an abrupt change if an it is being referred to. Besides, to what does the pronoun his refer if not to some masculine someone in the preceding verse?

 

[Llauralin]

The NIV is notorious for its Evangelical bias, but I cannot say for sure whether or not this is another instance of it.

I don't know enough about NT Greek to say if the use of it in verse 12 is justified. Given the context, I rather doubt it.

Verse 13 says his. Rather an abrupt change if an it is being referred to. Besides, to what does the pronoun his refer if not to some masculine someone in the preceding verse?

Well, if you read NIV, it's a little disjointed, but still makes some sence, regaurdless of how you read it, and goes something like this:

*Discussion on obedience and the Sabbath
*Random insertion about the Bible
*Nothing is hidden from God
*Jesus is our High Preist

There is an object for the "He":

13Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

But on the other hand, the random insertion of a statement aabout the Bible into a passage about Jesus, God, and judgment, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Not to say it's not possible though.

 

[Llauralin]

Oh, and I just noticed: Happy birthday!

 

[Maximus]

The noun to which a pronoun refers generally precedes rather than follows it. The Him of verse 13 refers to and follows the his and must refer to the same noun, which must have come before both of them.

 

[Llauralin]

The object of a pronoun generally precedes rather than follows it. The Him of verse 13 refers to and follows the his and must refer to the same object, which must have come before both of them.

Right, but that is not the case in all translations: verse 13 in NIV begins a compleatly new thought, with a new subject, object, whatever; basically a complete break in thinking.

The question would be which translation is more trustworthy, which is probably the KJV.

 

[Maximus]

Right, but that is not the case in all translations: verse 13 in NIV begins a compleatly new thought, with a new subject, object, whatever; basically a complete break in thinking.

The question would be which translation is more trustworthy, which is probably the KJV.

Read in context, I don't think that is the case at all. According to Strong's, the word word in verse 12 is Logos. That is the noun to which the his of verse 13 refers; nothing else makes sense. Him is another pronoun and follows his. Both refer to the Logos of verse 12. The rest of the passage continues to speak of the Lord Jesus and makes no mention of Scripture.

Is Logos ever used in the New Testament to refer to Scripture? I wonder.

The Greek word graphe is the one translated as Scripture in 2 Timothy 3:16.

It would be an interesting study to find out.

 

[Moros]

NIV is awful. Ditch it.

 

[Llauralin]

Read in context, I don't think that is the case at all. According to Strong's, the word word in verse 12 is Logos. That is the noun to which the his of verse 13 refers; nothing else makes sense. Him is another pronoun and follows his. Both refer to the Logos of verse 12. The rest of the passage continues to speak of the Lord Jesus and makes no mention of Scripture.

Is Logos ever used in the New Testament to refer to Scripture? I wonder.

The Greek word graphe is the one translated as Scripture in 2 Timothy 3:16.

It would be an interesting study to find out.

Ok, you're probably right.