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can anyone tell me exactly what they mean when they say "word of faith"? can anyone tell me why it is bad? good?
word of faith
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9-iron
Football Fan
Just like anything else, some Christians think it good sound doctrine, others consider it false teaching. I am not a WoF'er by any means, in fact, I find a lot of error within the movement. However, there have been a few tidbits here and there that have enriched my life. The one thing that discourages folks from looking at it more closely is the controversy surrounding it. It seems a large portion of leaders who fall from grace are from the WoF movement.
Do your homework on the movement. There is a WoF sub-forum, you might check that out. However, as I said, use caution when doing your research.
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JimfromOhio
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This is my opinion and experiences with Word of Faith movement.
I like to say that Word of Faith teaching did not originate with theologians or scholars like many denominations started. Word of Faith teachers, rather than "The Bible says," the Word of Faith teacher prefers to say, "God revealed this to me." For these preachers, one of the central messages of Scripture is that we Christians can have whatever we dare to claim for ourselves.
When people want to believe something so badly that they will reject the revealed truth of the Scriptures. People often seek direct response from God, and actually believe they heard God and believe. Those who do will receive an appropriate judgment as the consequence (see 2 Thes. 2:11-12). If one wishes to know the will of God on a subject, he must search the Holy Scriptures. This is the only source of sacred information relative to things spiritual (see 2 Tim. 3:16-17).
When a desire is based on worship, there is a danger of idolatry. The seduction of idolatry have been very strong and very successful since the days of the Old Testament books. Throughout the Bible, God have warned people to be careful of idolatry because we could slip into it almost without noticing it. Idolatry is an excessive devotion or reverence to an object or objects (i.e. prosperity, self-motivation, healing and etc). Idolatry is being used as an instrument of worship which is a false notion that causes spiritual errors in thinking or reasoning.
Idolatry is what God is saying something like this for today's Christians, "You have committed adultery by worshiping idols instead of worshiping Me. Your hearts have been unfaithful to me because you are loving yourselves more than you love Me. Your hearts longs for something from Me and that is idolatry. Worship means: All I want is your hearts alone and adore me for Who I am.
The greatest issue in prosperity or motivational preaching (Word of Faith) is not attendance but rather Christian's hearts. God is looking for Christians who will not worship Him in order to earn their blessings. God is looking for Christians who will worship Him from their hearts, minds and bodies without expecting blessings from God.
The heart is where God meets us because that is where we make our decisions. Our hearts are where our desires and motives are located. It is important to understand that our hearts is the state of our "flesh". Our flesh search for pleasure, pride, passions and selfish motives. There are many Christians who are still in their old ways and not becoming new persons as God called us to be holy.
If we read Isaiah 57 and other scriptures in the Bible, God is saying something like this for today's Christians, "You have committed adultery by worshiping idols instead of worshiping Me. Your hearts have been unfaithful to me because you are loving yourselves more than you love Me. You want my blessings and I want your hearts. You can't have my blessings until you first give me your hearts."
Jesus said in Matthew 6:21, "Wherever your treasure is, there your heart and thoughts will also be." (NLT)
In Proverbs 4:23, "Above all else, guard your heart, for it affects everything you do." (NLT)
In Proverbs 21:2, "People may think they are doing what is right, but the Lord examines the heart." (NLT)
".... I plead with you to give your bodies to God. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice-the kind He will accept. When you think of what He has done for you, is this too much to ask?" Romans 12:1 (NLT)
Too many people are thinking that we can have God's glory at little or no cost. Prosperity and motivational preaching has become major theologies in the Christian world. Such theologies that offers personal solutions to the problems of people. Theologies that are rooted in human motives rather than God's grace. These theologies are becoming dangerous to the Christian world because people are worshiping themselves which is a form of idiolatry. People are worshiping "the blessings of God" rather than "the God of the blessings". People are seeking miracles and blessings rather than God. People want the comfort of blessings rather than focusing on God.
The extravagant lifestyle of Word of Faith teachers is not a secretthey present their wealth as proof that the teaching works; of course, little attention is given to the millions who give what little hard-earned money they have and receive nothing in return. Most of the televangelist scandals of the late 1980s were part of the Word of Faith movement Jimmy Swaggart, Oral Roberts, and Jim Bakker.
Word of Faith is false teaching in every sense of the term, and fails every test of orthodoxy. The gospel is redefined and given a material focus, holiness is a means to prosperity, and much of the ministry seems merely a ploy for preachers to get rich off the desperate hopes of their viewers. Believers should be aware of who these teachers are and the danger they represent, both inside the church and without.
"I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting him who called you by the grace of Christ for a different gospel, which is really not another, only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ." Galatians 1:6-7
"They are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error." 1 John 4:5-6
There are people who claim to follow Christ who will avoid "sound doctrine" (See 2 Timothy 4:1-8). There are many who profess to follow Christ seem to be unyielding to God's Word because they prefer to be surrounded by teachers who will tell them exactly what they want to hear. In 2 Timothy 4:3, "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."
There are many of us who are liable to be accepting all teachings without checking and ended up get brainwashed by false teachings. We can end up following these instead of the voice of God; even if they are putting out false doctrine. The impressiveness or goodness of a person, organization, or movement can blind us. We need to learn to separate what is being taught from these things.
If you ever had occasion to drink a lukewarm soft drink, you know the feeling. This is an illustration of a lukewarm drink to describe the distaste that makes God spit out the church at Laodicea. He doesn't want to have anything to do with it. The Laodicean church was neither hot or cold; it was nauseating to God. The lukewarm ones are professing Christians who play religious games with God, but are not really His. They have been touched by the gospel in some way. They nauseate God because they know the truth but avoid it. I have posted in another thread that There are people who claim to follow Christ who will avoid hearing "sound doctrine" (See 2 Timothy 4:1-8). There are many who profess to follow Christ seem to be unyielding to God's Word because they prefer to be surrounded by teachers who will tell them exactly what they want to hear. In 2 Timothy 4:3, "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."
Jesus pleads with individuals (church at) Laodicea today, "I want to come into your life. I want you to open the door and let Me in." He was also pleading with individuals in the Laodicean church (especially today) to let Him in before it was too late. Christ wants to come into your life and change it.
Another issue: I am an accountant for a living. I understand there are many Christians accountants do NOT want to work for prosperity ministries (mostly WOFs) because there appear to be accounting ethical issues.
I like to say that Word of Faith teaching did not originate with theologians or scholars like many denominations started. Word of Faith teachers, rather than "The Bible says," the Word of Faith teacher prefers to say, "God revealed this to me." For these preachers, one of the central messages of Scripture is that we Christians can have whatever we dare to claim for ourselves.
When people want to believe something so badly that they will reject the revealed truth of the Scriptures. People often seek direct response from God, and actually believe they heard God and believe. Those who do will receive an appropriate judgment as the consequence (see 2 Thes. 2:11-12). If one wishes to know the will of God on a subject, he must search the Holy Scriptures. This is the only source of sacred information relative to things spiritual (see 2 Tim. 3:16-17).
When a desire is based on worship, there is a danger of idolatry. The seduction of idolatry have been very strong and very successful since the days of the Old Testament books. Throughout the Bible, God have warned people to be careful of idolatry because we could slip into it almost without noticing it. Idolatry is an excessive devotion or reverence to an object or objects (i.e. prosperity, self-motivation, healing and etc). Idolatry is being used as an instrument of worship which is a false notion that causes spiritual errors in thinking or reasoning.
Idolatry is what God is saying something like this for today's Christians, "You have committed adultery by worshiping idols instead of worshiping Me. Your hearts have been unfaithful to me because you are loving yourselves more than you love Me. Your hearts longs for something from Me and that is idolatry. Worship means: All I want is your hearts alone and adore me for Who I am.
The greatest issue in prosperity or motivational preaching (Word of Faith) is not attendance but rather Christian's hearts. God is looking for Christians who will not worship Him in order to earn their blessings. God is looking for Christians who will worship Him from their hearts, minds and bodies without expecting blessings from God.
The heart is where God meets us because that is where we make our decisions. Our hearts are where our desires and motives are located. It is important to understand that our hearts is the state of our "flesh". Our flesh search for pleasure, pride, passions and selfish motives. There are many Christians who are still in their old ways and not becoming new persons as God called us to be holy.
If we read Isaiah 57 and other scriptures in the Bible, God is saying something like this for today's Christians, "You have committed adultery by worshiping idols instead of worshiping Me. Your hearts have been unfaithful to me because you are loving yourselves more than you love Me. You want my blessings and I want your hearts. You can't have my blessings until you first give me your hearts."
Jesus said in Matthew 6:21, "Wherever your treasure is, there your heart and thoughts will also be." (NLT)
In Proverbs 4:23, "Above all else, guard your heart, for it affects everything you do." (NLT)
In Proverbs 21:2, "People may think they are doing what is right, but the Lord examines the heart." (NLT)
".... I plead with you to give your bodies to God. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice-the kind He will accept. When you think of what He has done for you, is this too much to ask?" Romans 12:1 (NLT)
Too many people are thinking that we can have God's glory at little or no cost. Prosperity and motivational preaching has become major theologies in the Christian world. Such theologies that offers personal solutions to the problems of people. Theologies that are rooted in human motives rather than God's grace. These theologies are becoming dangerous to the Christian world because people are worshiping themselves which is a form of idiolatry. People are worshiping "the blessings of God" rather than "the God of the blessings". People are seeking miracles and blessings rather than God. People want the comfort of blessings rather than focusing on God.
The extravagant lifestyle of Word of Faith teachers is not a secretthey present their wealth as proof that the teaching works; of course, little attention is given to the millions who give what little hard-earned money they have and receive nothing in return. Most of the televangelist scandals of the late 1980s were part of the Word of Faith movement Jimmy Swaggart, Oral Roberts, and Jim Bakker.
Word of Faith is false teaching in every sense of the term, and fails every test of orthodoxy. The gospel is redefined and given a material focus, holiness is a means to prosperity, and much of the ministry seems merely a ploy for preachers to get rich off the desperate hopes of their viewers. Believers should be aware of who these teachers are and the danger they represent, both inside the church and without.
"I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting him who called you by the grace of Christ for a different gospel, which is really not another, only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ." Galatians 1:6-7
"They are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error." 1 John 4:5-6
There are people who claim to follow Christ who will avoid "sound doctrine" (See 2 Timothy 4:1-8). There are many who profess to follow Christ seem to be unyielding to God's Word because they prefer to be surrounded by teachers who will tell them exactly what they want to hear. In 2 Timothy 4:3, "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."
There are many of us who are liable to be accepting all teachings without checking and ended up get brainwashed by false teachings. We can end up following these instead of the voice of God; even if they are putting out false doctrine. The impressiveness or goodness of a person, organization, or movement can blind us. We need to learn to separate what is being taught from these things.
If you ever had occasion to drink a lukewarm soft drink, you know the feeling. This is an illustration of a lukewarm drink to describe the distaste that makes God spit out the church at Laodicea. He doesn't want to have anything to do with it. The Laodicean church was neither hot or cold; it was nauseating to God. The lukewarm ones are professing Christians who play religious games with God, but are not really His. They have been touched by the gospel in some way. They nauseate God because they know the truth but avoid it. I have posted in another thread that There are people who claim to follow Christ who will avoid hearing "sound doctrine" (See 2 Timothy 4:1-8). There are many who profess to follow Christ seem to be unyielding to God's Word because they prefer to be surrounded by teachers who will tell them exactly what they want to hear. In 2 Timothy 4:3, "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."
Jesus pleads with individuals (church at) Laodicea today, "I want to come into your life. I want you to open the door and let Me in." He was also pleading with individuals in the Laodicean church (especially today) to let Him in before it was too late. Christ wants to come into your life and change it.
Another issue: I am an accountant for a living. I understand there are many Christians accountants do NOT want to work for prosperity ministries (mostly WOFs) because there appear to be accounting ethical issues.
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SNPete
Psalm 53:1
My understanding of the problem of the Word of Faith movement is that it appears that they expect God to answer all their prayers with a yes. They say the only thing that causes a NO answer is lack of faith.
Name it and claim it. Believe and receive.
I certainly believe that God heals, that God blesses one's finances and that one should trust God with our money.
The errors I have seen is expecting God to give us what we ask-Not Thy will but mine- kind of atitude. Also there is the idea that you are sick, because of sin in your life or lack of faith. Once again I do think God allows illness to get our attention, but not most of the time.
I think there is truth in some of the WoF stuff. The problem is that there seems to be too little of the accepting of the answer No from God.
Name it and claim it. Believe and receive.
I certainly believe that God heals, that God blesses one's finances and that one should trust God with our money.
The errors I have seen is expecting God to give us what we ask-Not Thy will but mine- kind of atitude. Also there is the idea that you are sick, because of sin in your life or lack of faith. Once again I do think God allows illness to get our attention, but not most of the time.
I think there is truth in some of the WoF stuff. The problem is that there seems to be too little of the accepting of the answer No from God.
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EdmundBlackadderTheThird
Proud member of the Loud Few
You would likely get a better answer here: http://www.christianforums.com/f122-spirit-filled-pentecostal-charismatic.html as that where our WoF bretheren would be hanging out. You could ask there and get a direct answer.
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Sketcher
Born Imperishable
The main problem with "name it, claim it" theology is that God is the one who gives and takes away (Job 1:21). He has intelligence and a will. That means, sometimes it is better that He say "no" to a prayer request (2 Corinthians 12:7-9). Yet, to a WoFer, it is somehow YOUR fault for not recieving it. Cancer is bad enough, but when all of a sudden it is your fault for having cancer because you didn't have enough faith for God to take it away, how much worse is that. How loving is that. Trampling on the downtrodden is NOT from God.
"Be merciful to those who doubt" - Jude 1:22
"Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn." - Romans 12:16
"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs." - 1 Corinthians 13:4-5 (this does not fit the way that some WoF ministers treat those who are not healed or do not fall down when touched).
"Be merciful to those who doubt" - Jude 1:22
"Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn." - Romans 12:16
"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs." - 1 Corinthians 13:4-5 (this does not fit the way that some WoF ministers treat those who are not healed or do not fall down when touched).
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Entertaining_Angels
Well-Known Member
I was raised with the 'name it/claim it' theology but only in the last few years did I realize that it wasn't from God. I liken it to mormonism or the jehovah's witness faith. You'll find just enough 'truth' in them to be dangerous but much of the teachings are heretical. If you make a cake and use the freshest, most expensive ingredients you can get your hands on, the cake still becomes ruined if you toss in just a bit of arsenic at the end. And, so goes it with the faith movement. You can find a lot to read on the subject. Some of the books I read against the faith movement weren't really what I experienced and were by people I suspect who didn't really know that much about it but other papers are good. It's best if you can talk to people who have actually been freed of these teachings.
And, be wary, you can easily be drawn in because like other the JW's and mormons, they'll 'love' you to pieces...until you 'cross' them and then things are not so friendly (to put it mildly). And, keep in mind, should you go looking to those in the movement, the answers you receive will be as straight forward as the answers a mormon would give you about the LDS church or the answers a JW would give you about the watchtower. Pray for discernment before you go seeking those answers and pray that only God's truth be revealed in your quest.
And, be wary, you can easily be drawn in because like other the JW's and mormons, they'll 'love' you to pieces...until you 'cross' them and then things are not so friendly (to put it mildly). And, keep in mind, should you go looking to those in the movement, the answers you receive will be as straight forward as the answers a mormon would give you about the LDS church or the answers a JW would give you about the watchtower. Pray for discernment before you go seeking those answers and pray that only God's truth be revealed in your quest.
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Entertaining_Angels
Well-Known Member
SNPete said:
That's because you'll find, if you read books by fellas like kenneth hagin, they claim that if you are true believer, God will never say 'no' to you. Basically, if you are a true believer, your will will always be in line with God's and to believe differently means you've been 'religiously brainwashed'. Oh it's great, I've seen folks get expensive toys while denying their kids medical insurance and the like, because it was the will of God.
Sigh...
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- Jun 25, 2003
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OreGal said:
Wow thats pretty crazy. Actually, I never got that from the WoF movement, but I have only been dealing with what I have heard them say on TV. I just recently was exposed to Kenneth Hagin. Had no idea who he was before last night. I usually watch Creflo and I haven't heard him state that ... but he is a large believer in naming/claiming believing/receiving. I don't have a problem with that theory. God spoke things into existence and it's the same idea, just that we may or may not get what it is that we speak. I know I have heard Creflo say that lack of faith doesnt help, and you have to go to the word of God for His will before you start claiming things. He has said that if it isn't in God's will, you won't get it, period... So I don't lump them all together. I was just wondering what other people were experiencing.
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Entertaining_Angels
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My advice, for whatever it is worth, is turn off creflo and the rest of the gang. Spend the time you would have watched him instead in prayer and digging into the Scriptures. Please, be very wary of creflo. I consider that to be dangerous territory spiritually.
God has blessed me abundantly since I stopped watching 'christian' tv.
God has blessed me abundantly since I stopped watching 'christian' tv.
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9-iron
Football Fan
I agree overall. However, some of his stuff is pretty general stuff that has given me some great insight. It takes a mature believer to seperate the wheat from the chaff, but there is some important messages within the WoF. I agree with OreGal, that the movement as a whole is off base.
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Leimeng
Senior Member
~ Creflo and the late Brother Hagin are excellent teachers of God's Word. I encourage you to prayerfully learn what you can from them as long as it does not distract from the time you put into prayer and the study of the Word. There is a huge anti-Faith/anti-Word cultic movement out there that wished to discredit the things of God. Avoid them like you would a STD.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...
Peace,
Leimeng
Flatulo Ergo Sum~~~
(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...
Peace,
Leimeng
Flatulo Ergo Sum~~~
(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)
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JimfromOhio
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9-iron said:How ironic! We have one group crying false teaching and the other group crying back at them. False teachers, cultic practices within Christianity, wars and rumors of war within Christian faith, we must be getting close to the end!!
Yep.. The book of Revelation talks about growing false teachings within the Church is of the signs of the end. Why did John write about the seven churches? He warned us about false teachings within the Church and he gave us examples from 7 churches.
The seven churches (Revelation chapters 2 and 3), located in Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.
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