Why would God create someone he knows will go to hell(please read before responding)

[Far Side Of the Moon]

What is the point, please try and refrain from using one liners like, Gods ways aren't our ways( because that doesn't answer the question)

I say this because , in heaven there will only be believers anyway and it'll be as if they never existed once they're in hell, so again what was the point? What's the point of making someone just to throw them away?
The temporary happiness they do have will be overshadowed by never ending torment ....I don't understand how this is "loving" it would be far more merciful to have never created them,as like I said before...heaven will only be filled with believers...so what is the point?

 

[John Hyperspace]

What is the point, please try and refrain from using one liners like, Gods ways aren't our ways( because that doesn't answer the question)

I say this because , in heaven there will only be believers anyway and it'll be as if they never existed once they're in hell, so again what was the point? What's the point of making someone just to throw them away?
The temporary happiness they do have will be overshadowed by never ending torment ....I don't understand how this is "loving" it would be far more merciful to have never created them,as like I said before...heaven will only be filled with believers...so what is the point?

There is no point. That should be your first indicator that such a senseless doctrine is the complete invention of the minds of men who are clearly misunderstanding something, and, reason is completely failing them in order to open their eyes to that senseless doctrine.

Whenever you hear something being taught that is absolutely irrational and senseless, red flags should be going up.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

What is the point, please try and refrain from using one liners like, Gods ways aren't our ways( because that doesn't answer the question)

But there in lies the problem. His ways aren't our ways. There is no answer to alot of questions we christians have. And there won't be. The only one who could answer them is not on earth answering questions (well so to speak). You may get the answer in heaven, or you may not. Your asking for an impossible answer that no one can give. We would have to know Gods ways to answer it.

Its like the question some ask "How can a pedophile of 40 years become a Christian, ask for forgiveness of what he did and go to heaven still?". Some things are beyond our understanding. Though at least in the case of this question we know its because God is forgiving.

I say this because , in heaven there will only be believers anyway and it'll be as if they never existed once they're in hell, so again what was the point? What's the point of making someone just to throw them away?
The temporary happiness they do have will be overshadowed by never ending torment ....I don't understand how this is "loving" it would be far more merciful to have never created them,as like I said before...heaven will only be filled with believers...so what is the point?

Simple answer to this paragraph.... free will.

There is no point. That should be your first indicator that such a senseless doctrine is the complete invention of the minds of men who are clearly misunderstanding something, and, reason is completely failing them in order to open their eyes to that senseless doctrine.

Whenever you hear something being taught that is absolutely irrational and senseless, red flags should be going up.

I'm sort of confused. I read your post and thought "How did a atheist access this area?!?". Then I read your status and it says your christian. And yet your basically saying Christianity is made up?!? Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

But there in lies the problem. His ways aren't our ways. There is no answer to alot of questions we christians have. And there won't be. The only one who could answer them is not on earth answering questions (well so to speak). You may get the answer in heaven, or you may not. Your asking for an impossible answer that no one can give. We would have to know Gods ways to answer it.

Its like the question some ask "How can a pedophile of 40 years become a Christian, ask for forgiveness of what he did and go to heaven still?". Some things are beyond our understanding. Though at least in the case of this question we know its because God is forgiving.


Simple answer to this paragraph.... free will.



I'm sort of confused. I read your post and thought "How did a atheist access this area?!?". Then I read your status and it says your christian. And yet your basically saying Christianity is made up?!? Correct me if I am wrong.

Yes I know I'm asking an impossible question but I'm asking because I'm so uncomfortable with this truth

 

[John Hyperspace]

But there in lies the problem. His ways aren't our ways. There is no answer to alot of questions we christians have.

So you're suggesting we abandon all reason, rational thought, and sense; to accept the irrational, unreasonable and senseless teaching that men teach about what they think the scripture means. Based on the thought that we can't know something, so "just accept this senseless teaching as true": and this makes sense to you? You quote that God's ways are not our ways; it's also that His thoughts are not our thoughts. So how do you know your thoughts about the subject are His thoughts? My first indication is whether or not your thoughts make sense. If they don't, I reject them. I have full confidence in the sense of God, and none in the sense of men. After all, His thoughts are not their thoughts.

In other words I don't find the defense of senselessness with the senseless defense "We just don't know, so accept the senseless" as even remotely persuasive. Only the senseless would find that defense persuasive.

 

[John Hyperspace]

In other other words, I believe the scripture is true. If a man says "this is what I think the scripture means" and the things he thinks the scripture means are senseless, my response is going to be "I reject what you think as being what the scripture means because your thoughts are senseless, and the scripture cannot be senseless, and God is not senseless and does not expect us to believe in senseless interpretations of scripture: therefore you are misunderstanding" if the scripture were senseless, there would be no reason for it to even exist, since we could make no sense of it.

 

[TurtleAnne]

There can't be virtue without evil.

Just as it was in the beginning of humanity, before Adam and Eve understood the difference between good and evil. And because they did not understand, they were neither, neither good nor evil.

I have never had a child, I have never been a parent. But I have been a child and I have reached adulthood, and had a relationship with parents. Like most people have, though not all, as I am aware that there are tragic cases out there.

But from that experience, I know the difference between being kept like a houseplant, and being set free, free to experience, to develop, to grow, to learn, to become more complex and have more depth. Some of it is very painful, but it's so worth it, for the beautiful parts.

So to me, that is the ultimate manifestation of love, to prepare and nurture and guide, but then to ultimately set free, despite one's fear that their child may get hurt or severely go astray. When it is not about you, but about the one you love.

So because this is how I have experienced things and how I perceive things, even on a purely human level, that is why it does not disturb me that God created humanity, gave us nurturing and guidance, after preparing the earth for us, and then ultimately made it possible for us to venture out on our own, to be set free, to grow and learn and become more complex and develop more depth.

And likewise, to always be the divine parent waiting for us back at home, to where we can always return until the very end of our time.

 

[2X4]

What is the point, please try and refrain from using one liners like, Gods ways aren't our ways( because that doesn't answer the question)

I say this because , in heaven there will only be believers anyway and it'll be as if they never existed once they're in hell, so again what was the point? What's the point of making someone just to throw them away?
The temporary happiness they do have will be overshadowed by never ending torment ....I don't understand how this is "loving" it would be far more merciful to have never created them,as like I said before...heaven will only be filled with believers...so what is the point?

Most human beings believe they are real people and a few of us have learned what the Truth is.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Yes I know I'm asking an impossible question but I'm asking because I'm so uncomfortable with this truth

Well I guess the only real answer I could give is to accept the truth, even if it feels uncomfortable. Because its the only real option. But then again I could be wrong.

In other words I don't find the defense of senselessness with the senseless defense "We just don't know, so accept the senseless" as even remotely persuasive.

Well Hes God right? If we were to measure our intelligence compared to His, I'd say we (and obviously just guessing) He is about 100,000,000,000 times more intelligent then we are. After all He created everything. Every cell and atom. Our beyond complex brains and bodies and everything in them. So in my mind if thats how mind blowingly amazing and intelligent He is, then obviously there are things only He knows that would be impossible for us to understand.

For example you say we shouldn't accept the senseless. So if that is the case explain how He created everything in 7 days. I mean we know He did it of course. But its not like we can possibly understand what took place or even what it looked like or what the process was. Like did he stare into blackness and things like planets popped up one at a time? Or like did all the animals on earth pop into excistine at once? Theres no human way to fathom that or explain it. Because.... to a human mind we can't grasp that. We can believe it of course, but it doesn't mean we understand it exactly.

For a much less of an example look at Einstein. All the theories he came up with, some that weren't proven for a long time. Can we possibly explain how he came up with what he did? Or what his exact thoughts were? Can we understand what he saw that made him come up with what he did? Of course not. And to the mind of someone whos of normal intelligence (and maybe even mensa smart) it seems senseless.

Actually look at this picture. Do you know what it means? Can you solve whatever its asking? Or is it just senseless and beyond your understanding? Point proven:

http://static3.businessinsider.com/...-158/screen shot 2013-07-16 at 3.33.04 pm.png

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

What is the point, please try and refrain from using one liners like, Gods ways aren't our ways( because that doesn't answer the question)

I say this because , in heaven there will only be believers anyway and it'll be as if they never existed once they're in hell, so again what was the point? What's the point of making someone just to throw them away?
The temporary happiness they do have will be overshadowed by never ending torment ....I don't understand how this is "loving" it would be far more merciful to have never created them,as like I said before...heaven will only be filled with believers...so what is the point?

I trust God to have a satisfactory answer. Alas, I don't know it. Humanly speaking there are some possibilities to list off . . .

a) Hell is only temporary until the soul is retrained?
b) Universal salvation after all?
c) We can honor the free will choice of those who suffer in hell?
d) There really isn't a hell?
e) Even in hell one can be redeemed?

Most folks around here would vote for c but the other options have their adherents. Maybe there are other options I haven't listed.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Luke 13
6And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. 7“And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’ 8“And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; 9and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’”

The above scripture doesn't sound like God made some people for destruction. If you read text which seems to teach double predestination, look carefully at the context.

Psalms 103
8The Lord is compassionate and merciful: longsuffering and plenteous in mercy.

 

[wayfaring man]

The a main purpose of this life is to experience both good and evil, so that we may learn to choose the good and refuse the evil, and thus come into harmony with the mind of God and Christ; so that we may be given entrance and citizenship into The Kingdom of Heaven, with the instilled understanding that will prevent any further deviation or rebellion forever.

***********************

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. <---> Isaiah 7:14-15


But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. <---> Revelation 10:7

************************

We are the potential replacements for the fallen angels.

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

Well I guess the only real answer I could give is to accept the truth, even if it feels uncomfortable. Because its the only real option. But then again I could be wrong.


Well Hes God right? If we were to measure our intelligence compared to His, I'd say we (and obviously just guessing) He is about 100,000,000,000 times more intelligent then we are. After all He created everything. Every cell and atom. Our beyond complex brains and bodies and everything in them. So in my mind if thats how mind blowingly amazing and intelligent He is, then obviously there are things only He knows that would be impossible for us to understand.

For example you say we shouldn't accept the senseless. So if that is the case explain how He created everything in 7 days. I mean we know He did it of course. But its not like we can possibly understand what took place or even what it looked like or what the process was. Like did he stare into blackness and things like planets popped up one at a time? Or like did all the animals on earth pop into excistine at once? Theres no human way to fathom that or explain it. Because.... to a human mind we can't grasp that. We can believe it of course, but it doesn't mean we understand it exactly.

For a much less of an example look at Einstein. All the theories he came up with, some that weren't proven for a long time. Can we possibly explain how he came up with what he did? Or what his exact thoughts were? Can we understand what he saw that made him come up with what he did? Of course not. And to the mind of someone whos of normal intelligence (and maybe even mensa smart) it seems senseless.

Actually look at this picture. Do you know what it means? Can you solve whatever its asking? Or is it just senseless and beyond your understanding? Point proven:

http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/51e5a00fecad04865700000a-494-158/screen shot 2013-07-16 at 3.33.04 pm.png

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] XD I can't solve that lol, I looked at that and was like..pass. Lol ...but you're right..god is far more intelligent than I am... So in that sense I should trust him a bit.

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

The a main purpose of this life is to experience both good and evil, so that we may learn to choose the good and refuse the evil, and thus come into harmony with the mind of God and Christ; so that we may be given entrance and citizenship into The Kingdom of Heaven, with the instilled understanding that will prevent any further deviation or rebellion forever.

***********************

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. <---> Isaiah 7:14-15


But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. <---> Revelation 10:7

************************

We are the potential replacements for the fallen angels.

I agree with what you said, this current plane is a learning lesson for the soul. Also, I never thought of it like that...you think were potential angel replacements?

 

[John Hyperspace]

Well Hes God right?

Yes, He is God: you are not. This is not about God it is about what you are proposing that God means to be teaching. Just because you interpret the scripture to mean "this" does not mean that God means "this", it only means, "this" is your interpretation. Now, if your teaching is senseless, any reasonable, rational, and sensible person should reject it as "erroneous understanding": this is why there are so many unbelievers, because they reject senseless teachings of men, not themselves realizing the men are the senseless origin of their senseless understanding. Unfortunately, the unbelievers act in a similarily senseless manner in rejecting scripture out-of-hand senselessly believing the senseless teachings of men represent the sensible truth of God.

God does not say "Come let us reason together" and then teach something senseless and devoid of reason. This is why I can be confident that senseless teachings are the doctrines of men and not God. God is reasonable, men are not.

For example you say we shouldn't accept the senseless. So if that is the case explain how He created everything in 7 days.

I cannot explain it. It would be senseless to try. "God created the creation in 7 days" is a simple proposition, not remotely the same as "God created people full well knowing they would reject Him forever, and so sentenced them to eternal separation from Him: but He loves them!" which is a senseless proposition, as senseless as the understanding of men can get.

"Paul built his house in 3 days" is not the same as "Paul knew if he had a child that child would live in agonizing pain; but Paul had a child anyway, and his child is in constant agony; Paul is always thoughtful of others, never intending to cause needless suffering!" is senseless.

 

[wayfaring man]

I agree with what you said, this current plane is a learning lesson for the soul. Also, I never thought of it like that...you think were potential angel replacements?

Indeed !

For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. <---> Luke 19:10

[Note: says that which was lost...not those who are lost.]

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. <---> Matthew 22:30

***************************

We are told of 1/3 of the angels falling away. Revelation 12:3-4

And Heaven being a place of perfection - would naturally have a perfect number of occupants, in Hebrews 12:22 that number is described as being 'innumerable', or beyond counting...something like billions or trillions, or quadrillions...more than we could count in a human lifetime if we started counting at age 3.

So, it makes sense that when enough of us 'potential replacements' have been redeemed so as to 'fill the vacancies', the the end will come.

John 4:34 + Romans 9:28

This is also why the fallen / the devil(s) don't like us - and try to get us to fail / fall short of salvation.

 

[AvgJoe]

What is the point, please try and refrain from using one liners like, Gods ways aren't our ways( because that doesn't answer the question)

I say this because , in heaven there will only be believers anyway and it'll be as if they never existed once they're in hell, so again what was the point? What's the point of making someone just to throw them away?
The temporary happiness they do have will be overshadowed by never ending torment ....I don't understand how this is "loving" it would be far more merciful to have never created them,as like I said before...heaven will only be filled with believers...so what is the point?

This may help (pages 18-22)~~~> https://d3uet6ae1sqvww.cloudfront.n...ds-choice-or-ours-predestination-election.pdf

 

[Radrook]

In other other words, I believe the scripture is true. If a man says "this is what I think the scripture means" and the things he thinks the scripture means are senseless, my response is going to be "I reject what you think as being what the scripture means because your thoughts are senseless, and the scripture cannot be senseless, and God is not senseless and does not expect us to believe in senseless interpretations of scripture: therefore you are misunderstanding" if the scripture were senseless, there would be no reason for it to even exist, since we could make no sense of it.

Interpretation of scripture can be both senseless and blasphemous if it defames God's character..

 

[2X4]

Interpretation of scripture can be both senseless and blasphemous if it defames God's character..

All interpretations by unspiritual men are senseless to us servants who testify to the knowledge called Christ. In fact, some of those interpretations are hilarious to us.

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

Indeed !

For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. <---> Luke 19:10

[Note: says that which was lost...not those who are lost.]

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. <---> Matthew 22:30

***************************

We are told of 1/3 of the angels falling away. Revelation 12:3-4

And Heaven being a place of perfection - would naturally have a perfect number of occupants, in Hebrews 12:22 that number is described as being 'innumerable', or beyond counting...something like billions or trillions, or quadrillions...more than we could count in a human lifetime if we started counting at age 3.

So, it makes sense that when enough of us 'potential replacements' have been redeemed so as to 'fill the vacancies', the the end will come.

John 4:34 + Romans 9:28

This is also why the fallen / the devil(s) don't like us - and try to get us to fail / fall short of salvation.

Wow that's very interesting and thanks for providing scripture.