Why this Christian GOP member is changing

[Mary7]

My background. Hard core Republican and born again Christian. Watched only Fox news. I would not associate with a Democrat because they could not possibly be a christian and obviously they were stupid, therefore I wanted nothing to do with them (not that there are many here in the Deep South). Been this way since the early '70s. I was a patriot extreme. I even loved to play video war games (mmorpg) such as Battlefield etc. My daddy was in Patton's 3rd and I was married to an AF fighter pilot.

The Lord allowed me to have 2 children with disabilities and they were uninsurable, yet I continued in my hard heartedness. To preserve that worldview, I had to believe that poor people had morally earned their “just” desserts, and I had to ignore those whining liberals who tried to point out that the world didn’t actually work that way.

To shorten this, I jump to this past year where the Lord has been opening my eyes to how this looked to Him and part of this was brought on by suffering. I realized that the 'poor people' most think of are minorities and I must confess that every one I know.. underneath is racist. Not KKK racist but a feeling of 'they are lazy and don't deserve help and we are actually better than them'. THAT (racism) is the root of the lack of compassion IMO.
Mexicans.. I wanted them OUT!!! By any method! Blacks, well we know they are all on welfare and should get their lazy selves a job.

Still trying to summarize here, I realized I needed to repent of this and I saw verses about 'helping the alien in the land' and so MANY MANY verses about helping the poor! And what? I am to respect the President?? But.. I HATE him.. Hillary too!! Why do I hate them? Well.. I uh.. don't know.. Fox says they are bad so that makes it true.
(some researching showed I had been misled on MANY things)

But.. the GOP is against abortion! So am I! But slowly I realized this is not the only spiritual issue and I now feel that if the abortion card were removed, the GOP would have no platform.
I started seeing that being American was equated with being a Christian yet.. the Bible says we are citizens of heaven.. we are pilgrims here.. we are temporarily stationed in another country as one brother said.

I feel shame for my hard heartedness against the poor and the immigrants and wonder how I could have considered myself a Christian (but Christ's death on the cross made me one). My eyes have slowly opened to the suffering that multitudes go thru while I was isolated in my little Republican world. I see the candidates saying how they want to do away with SS and Medicare.. do they not care about anyone?? To shrink the government is more important than helping people? They say they are Christians. I think the religious right is harming the cause of Christ and driving people away. That is not true Christianity. Patriotism has become a 'religion'.
Sorry this was such a wall of text.

 

[dogs4thewin]

My background. Hard core Republican and born again Christian. Watched only Fox news. I would not associate with a Democrat because they could not possibly be a christian and obviously they were stupid, therefore I wanted nothing to do with them (not that there are many here in the Deep South). Been this way since the early '70s. I was a patriot extreme. I even loved to play video war games (mmorpg) such as Battlefield etc. My daddy was in Patton's 3rd and I was married to an AF fighter pilot.

The Lord allowed me to have 2 children with disabilities and they were uninsurable, yet I continued in my hard heartedness. To preserve that worldview, I had to believe that poor people had morally earned their “just” desserts, and I had to ignore those whining liberals who tried to point out that the world didn’t actually work that way.

To shorten this, I jump to this past year where the Lord has been opening my eyes to how this looked to Him and part of this was brought on by suffering. I realized that the 'poor people' most think of are minorities and I must confess that every one I know.. underneath is racist. Not KKK racist but a feeling of 'they are lazy and don't deserve help and we are actually better than them'. THAT (racism) is the root of the lack of compassion IMO.
Mexicans.. I wanted them OUT!!! By any method! Blacks, well we know they are all on welfare and should get their lazy selves a job.

Still trying to summarize here, I realized I needed to repent of this and I saw verses about 'helping the alien in the land' and so MANY MANY verses about helping the poor! And what? I am to respect the President?? But.. I HATE him.. Hillary too!! Why do I hate them? Well.. I uh.. don't know.. Fox says they are bad so that makes it true.
(some researching showed I had been misled on MANY things)

But.. the GOP is against abortion! So am I! But slowly I realized this is not the only spiritual issue and I now feel that if the abortion card were removed, the GOP would have no platform.
I started seeing that being American was equated with being a Christian yet.. the Bible says we are citizens of heaven.. we are pilgrims here.. we are temporarily stationed in another country as one brother said.

I feel shame for my hard heartedness against the poor and the immigrants and wonder how I could have considered myself a Christian (but Christ's death on the cross made me one). My eyes have slowly opened to the suffering that multitudes go thru while I was isolated in my little Republican world. I see the candidates saying how they want to do away with SS and Medicare.. do they not care about anyone?? To shrink the government is more important than helping people? They say they are Christians. I think the religious right is harming the cause of Christ and driving people away. That is not true Christianity. Patriotism has become a 'religion'.
Sorry this was such a wall of text.

One problem is and I do not remember who said it, but said if the government gives you everything they can take it all away. If someone NEEDS help that is one thing, BUT if we must have the government help local government is our best bet the closer to the people the better.

 

[JackRT]

Mary7 -well said--- I pray that more like you are waking up to hard realities

 

[dogs4thewin]

Mary7 -well said--- I pray that more like you are waking up to hard realities

I am HARD core Republican on most issues ( exceptions are death penalty/inmate rights and the issue of weed being legal. Most people I know ( particularly older people are pretty hard-core Republican those same older people support the poor that does not mean that those people feel the poor should have the same QUALITY as others have, but they support what people NEED.

 

[Oafman]

Good for you Mary.

The Lord allowed me to have 2 children with disabilities and they were uninsurable

Uninsurable? What exactly does this mean? In the absence of insurance, how did you pay for their treatment?

 

[Mary7]

Good for you Mary.


Uninsurable? What exactly does this mean? In the absence of insurance, how did you pay for their treatment?

We had to come up with the money ourselves and had to severely limit medical treatment.
Years later I got them on disability which greatly helps.

 

[Oafman]

We had to come up with the money ourselves and had to severely limit medical treatment.
Years later I got them on disability which greatly helps.

Ugh. I assumed it would be covered by Medicare or something. Society should pay for full care for those who are born with a disability, for their whole life. That's not socialism, it's just doing what is obviously the right thing to do.

Glad to hear things improved eventually.

 

[Mary7]

I am HARD core Republican on most issues ( exceptions are death penalty/inmate rights and the issue of weed being legal. Most people I know ( particularly older people are pretty hard-core Republican those same older people support the poor that does not mean that those people feel the poor should have the same QUALITY as others have, but they support what people NEED.

Too many don't have even the needs. Have you ever even looked into the poverty in this country? I never did until recently. I have heard about homeless moms with children living in cars while working. It takes alot to come up with rent deposits and utility deposits. Do you consider a car a need? Many cannot afford the insurance, tags etc.
Open your eyes to the truth. Be sure your heart is in the right place with what God expects Christians to do.

Please tell me you are not one of those that claim to see people on assistance with fancy clothes and eating sirloin.
Food stamps don't stretch that far and good clothes can be gotten from thrift shops. Do not judge by appearances.
The average welfare recipient is white and the average length of aid is 5 years.

 

[Mary7]

Ugh. I assumed it would be covered by Medicare or something. Society should pay for full care for those who are born with a disability, for their whole life. That's not socialism, it's just doing what is obviously the right thing to do.

Glad to hear things improved eventually.

Thanks.
Medicare is actually a socialist program as is Social Security. When SS was established back in the 30s the president was called a socialist for starting it and the republican party fought it.. and now they are trying to take it away. I heard a candidate sayin his first year in office one of the first things he will do is to abolish it.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Too many don't have even the needs. Have you ever even looked into the poverty in this country? I never did until recently. I have heard about homeless moms with children living in cars while working. It takes alot to come up with rent deposits and utility deposits. Do you consider a car a need? Many cannot afford the insurance, tags etc.
Open your eyes to the truth. Be sure your heart is in the right place with what God expects Christians to do.

Please tell me you are not one of those that claim to see people on assistance with fancy clothes and eating sirloin.
Food stamps don't stretch that far and good clothes can be gotten from thrift shops. Do not judge by appearances.
The average welfare recipient is white and the average length of aid is 5 years.

only 24 here, so I am not very good with life, but five years sounds like a while to me?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Thanks.
Medicare is actually a socialist program as is Social Security. When SS was established back in the 30s the president was called a socialist for starting it and the republican party fought it.. and now they are trying to take it away. I heard a candidate sayin his first year in office one of the first things he will do is to abolish it.

Well, while I do not think that SS should nessarysily be taken away entirely I do feel that too many people do not prepare for retirement and end up using it as their sole source of income. It was neither designed for that, nor is it enough to live on.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Ugh. I assumed it would be covered by Medicare or something. Society should pay for full care for those who are born with a disability, for their whole life. That's not socialism, it's just doing what is obviously the right thing to do.

Glad to hear things improved eventually.

so they should just pay for what services? Again, quality is a major issue. I believe people should have what they NEED, but I ALSO believe that people who can afford to do so should have the right to buy nicer "things" and services.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Too many don't have even the needs. Have you ever even looked into the poverty in this country? I never did until recently. I have heard about homeless moms with children living in cars while working. It takes alot to come up with rent deposits and utility deposits. Do you consider a car a need? Many cannot afford the insurance, tags etc.
Open your eyes to the truth. Be sure your heart is in the right place with what God expects Christians to do.

Please tell me you are not one of those that claim to see people on assistance with fancy clothes and eating sirloin.
Food stamps don't stretch that far and good clothes can be gotten from thrift shops. Do not judge by appearances.
The average welfare recipient is white and the average length of aid is 5 years.

Food stamps are not meant to COVER your food anyway. The S in SNAP makes that clear. In fact, people on SNAP are expected to spend 30% ( that is greater than 1/4 of their income on food. If someone wants to buy those things on SNAP this would INCLUDE the "fancier" meats in stores they are free to do so with the 30% they are expected to put towards food, anyway.

 

[JackRT]

Why myths about poor endure

by Judith McCormack in the Toronto Star

Our perceptions of poor people are full of stubborn myths. The man who picks up his welfare cheque in a white Cadillac, the teenage mother with a flock of illegitimate children, the loafer who works the system instead of a job – these are the stuff of urban legends. The reality of poverty is surprisingly different. To begin with, the proportion of single parents on welfare who are under 20 years old is very small – 3 per cent, according to a National Council on Welfare study. And nearly half of all single parent families on welfare have only one child, with another 31 per cent having only two children. That couch potato with a weak work ethic? Another myth. The grim truth is that more than half of all poor people are working. And even bleaker – almost one-third of people on welfare are children. When the proportion of poor people with disabilities is added to this mix, the picture looks quite different. There is a notable absence of white Cadillacs among the poor as well. Welfare incomes typically hover at around half the poverty line, not nearly enough money for adequate food or housing, let alone a car. Perhaps the most persistent of these fallacies is the idea of widespread welfare fraud. In fact, the evidence suggests that the rate of welfare fraud is quite low.

As professors Janet Mosher and Joe Hermer found in a report to the Law Commission of Canada, the number of welfare fraud convictions in Ontario in 2001-02 was roughly equivalent to 0.1 per cent of the combined social assistance caseload. Even more telling is that these convictions represented only 1 per cent of the allegations about welfare offences. And there were a large number of allegations – 38,452 welfare fraud investigations were conducted that year. The end tally? Ninety-nine per cent of them did not result in convictions. In other words, a great deal of time and energy is spent looking for welfare fraud, but there doesn't seem to be much to find.

So why are these myths so resilient, despite the evidence to the contrary? One reason has to do with underlying economic fears in society at large. For many people, concerns about financial insecurity and ending up poor are never far from the surface. These fears can be handled by assigning certain traits to the poor that make them different from the rest of society. If we think of the poor as lazy and dishonest, then it seems less likely that poverty will happen to us, the hard-working, the responsible. But these stereotypes are not merely the result of personal fears. They serve a number of other purposes as well. Blaming the poor for their own plight makes it possible to avoid a more searching examination of the social and economic factors that contribute to poverty.

For example, unemployment is an important determinant of poverty. But the unemployment rate is closely linked to broader economic policy decisions. Increasing interest rates, for instance, usually results in fewer jobs and higher unemployment. This means that finding a job is like a game of musical chairs for the poor. No matter how motivated an individual person may be, there will always be too few chairs to go around. Similarly, a low minimum wage, or a lack of affordable housing are public policy choices that have a direct effect on poverty. Stigmatizing the poor allows politicians and policy-makers to ignore responsibility for those decisions.

The myths about poverty often serve other political purposes as well. Defining the poor as lazy or irresponsible creates popular villains for the rest of us to condemn. It panders to a human weakness to feel superior to someone, and provides a handy target for complaints about tax dollars. The same is true when those stereotypes are dressed up in the jargon of "welfare dependency," argued as the reason why poor children sometimes end up as poor adults. The real problem is that poor children have severely limited resources, which often translates into less education and fewer opportunities as they get older. They may indeed end up losing that game of musical chairs, but not because of a particular mindset.

The truth is that, like the rest of us, poor people engage in a wide range of moral conduct and possess a broad array of personal traits and psychological outlooks. And the way to address a complex problem like economic inequality is from a variety of different angles. Rather than scapegoating the poor, there are a series of practical steps that would have a significant impact on poverty. Several of these steps have been canvassed in these pages – a higher minimum wage, affordable housing, universal child care, a guaranteed income, and accessible education. These measures go to some of the most fundamental principles of civil society: ensuring human dignity and a fair shake for everyone, regardless of income.

 

[Oafman]

so they should just pay for what services? Again, quality is a major issue. I believe people should have what they NEED, but I ALSO believe that people who can afford to do so should have the right to buy nicer "things" and services.

You're applying that mantra to disabled children?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Why myths about poor endure

by Judith McCormack in the Toronto Star

Our perceptions of poor people are full of stubborn myths. The man who picks up his welfare cheque in a white Cadillac, the teenage mother with a flock of illegitimate children, the loafer who works the system instead of a job – these are the stuff of urban legends. The reality of poverty is surprisingly different. To begin with, the proportion of single parents on welfare who are under 20 years old is very small – 3 per cent, according to a National Council on Welfare study. And nearly half of all single parent families on welfare have only one child, with another 31 per cent having only two children. That couch potato with a weak work ethic? Another myth. The grim truth is that more than half of all poor people are working. And even bleaker – almost one-third of people on welfare are children. When the proportion of poor people with disabilities is added to this mix, the picture looks quite different. There is a notable absence of white Cadillacs among the poor as well. Welfare incomes typically hover at around half the poverty line, not nearly enough money for adequate food or housing, let alone a car. Perhaps the most persistent of these fallacies is the idea of widespread welfare fraud. In fact, the evidence suggests that the rate of welfare fraud is quite low.

As professors Janet Mosher and Joe Hermer found in a report to the Law Commission of Canada, the number of welfare fraud convictions in Ontario in 2001-02 was roughly equivalent to 0.1 per cent of the combined social assistance caseload. Even more telling is that these convictions represented only 1 per cent of the allegations about welfare offences. And there were a large number of allegations – 38,452 welfare fraud investigations were conducted that year. The end tally? Ninety-nine per cent of them did not result in convictions. In other words, a great deal of time and energy is spent looking for welfare fraud, but there doesn't seem to be much to find.

So why are these myths so resilient, despite the evidence to the contrary? One reason has to do with underlying economic fears in society at large. For many people, concerns about financial insecurity and ending up poor are never far from the surface. These fears can be handled by assigning certain traits to the poor that make them different from the rest of society. If we think of the poor as lazy and dishonest, then it seems less likely that poverty will happen to us, the hard-working, the responsible. But these stereotypes are not merely the result of personal fears. They serve a number of other purposes as well. Blaming the poor for their own plight makes it possible to avoid a more searching examination of the social and economic factors that contribute to poverty.

For example, unemployment is an important determinant of poverty. But the unemployment rate is closely linked to broader economic policy decisions. Increasing interest rates, for instance, usually results in fewer jobs and higher unemployment. This means that finding a job is like a game of musical chairs for the poor. No matter how motivated an individual person may be, there will always be too few chairs to go around. Similarly, a low minimum wage, or a lack of affordable housing are public policy choices that have a direct effect on poverty. Stigmatizing the poor allows politicians and policy-makers to ignore responsibility for those decisions.

The myths about poverty often serve other political purposes as well. Defining the poor as lazy or irresponsible creates popular villains for the rest of us to condemn. It panders to a human weakness to feel superior to someone, and provides a handy target for complaints about tax dollars. The same is true when those stereotypes are dressed up in the jargon of "welfare dependency," argued as the reason why poor children sometimes end up as poor adults. The real problem is that poor children have severely limited resources, which often translates into less education and fewer opportunities as they get older. They may indeed end up losing that game of musical chairs, but not because of a particular mindset.

The truth is that, like the rest of us, poor people engage in a wide range of moral conduct and possess a broad array of personal traits and psychological outlooks. And the way to address a complex problem like economic inequality is from a variety of different angles. Rather than scapegoating the poor, there are a series of practical steps that would have a significant impact on poverty. Several of these steps have been canvassed in these pages – a higher minimum wage, affordable housing, universal child care, a guaranteed income, and accessible education. These measures go to some of the most fundamental principles of civil society: ensuring human dignity and a fair shake for everyone, regardless of income.

As for abuse of the system being low it really depends. Keep in mind that the rates and stats can ONLY show the people CAUGHT. I am not saying that all of them do it I am saying that the stats really cannot speak the whole truth. If you NEED help then OK, but do not expect what other people have that you cannot afford.

 

[dogs4thewin]

You're applying that mantra to disabled children?

I am saying that what you NEED and what you or in this case the parents may WANT are often very different. I have no issue with society giving them to treatment they NEED as long as there is prove, but that does not mean that they should get everything they WANT.

For example, suppose that they need braces ( for the feet) fine, BUT suppose they want fancy braces that are all different colors and that HAPPENS to cost more no now if it does not cost anymore then by all means.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Well, while I do not think that SS should nessarysily be taken away entirely I do feel that too many people do not prepare for retirement and end up using it as their sole source of income. It was neither designed for that, nor is it enough to live on.

So...when you're barely making it as it is, you are supposed to SAVE for retirement? Right...why don't you tell me how someone making 10 bucks an hour is supposed to save for anything? Even if you have two parents making 10 dollars an hour each, how are they supposed to save? By the time they pay for living expenses, day care, school expenses, groceries, car repairs, there isn't much if anything left.

You have repeatedly shown you have no real idea of the real world. You've never held a job, never lived on your own. Stop pontificating on things you know close to nothing about.

 

[dogs4thewin]

So...when you're barely making it as it is, you are supposed to SAVE for retirement? Right...why don't you tell me how someone making 10 bucks an hour is supposed to save for anything? Even if you have two parents making 10 dollars an hour each, how are they supposed to save? By the time they pay for living expenses, day care, school expenses, groceries, car repairs, there isn't much if anything left.

You have repeatedly shown you have no real idea of the real world. You've never held a job, never lived on your own. Stop pontificating on things you know close to nothing about.

I would think that in all the years one works they could save at LEAST a little a month; particularly if they started young and did it as their income went up.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

I would think that in all the years one works they could save at LEAST a little a month; particularly if they started young and did it as their income went up.

Incomes DO NOT go up that much in most jobs. I have friends that MIGHT get a 2% raise, then the insurance premiums go up enough to eat into that raise. Many jobs do not give raises, cost of living or otherwise, anymore.

Again...the real world doesn't work that way. It is extremely difficult for most people to save for anything, let alone retirement. Just trying to survive day to day and week to week is hard enough for most people. Most folks are one catastrophic illness, one major car repair away from losing almost everything.

Let's look at this rationally...
2 adults making 10.00 an hour each = about 40K/yr. (roughly 3300.00/mo before taxes, clearing about 2800.00/month after taxes and before deductions)
call it 200.00 a month for medical insurance - down to 2600.00/month
2 children in daycare - 300.00 a week (and that's on the cheap side) - you're down to 1400.00
Rent and utilities in a cheap place - 1000.00/month
down to 400 dollars for car insurance, medical expenses, food, clothes, gas, etc.

Now...how do you think someone can SAVE for retirement?